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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Cistern Measurement...

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Jay87T

01-09-2006 15:00:10




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Hey guys Is there a better way to messure how much water I have in my cistern rather than using a stick? Is there some sort of meter of some sort out there? and how does it work? also how much $$ we talking. its a 2000 gallon cistern.
Thanks.




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MWJ

01-10-2006 16:45:28




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
drill a hole in the lid put a rod in with a cattle waterer float fastened to the bottem it will lower to the level of the water



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Russel king

01-10-2006 14:18:35




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
I worked 42 years in a paper mill all the old level control system wrer run by low pressure air. Put a 1/2 in copper pipe in cistem Then using smaller copper pipe[3/8 will work]pipe it out to wher you want to put the read out , put a pressure gauge [0 to 10 # pressure one would worked best]then put a shut off . With tank full of water pump up line [ a portable tank or even a hand pump would work]until gaue stops going up. For ever 1/2 # pressure you will have 1 foot of water. As water in tank drops the more air will leak out of bottom of linethe gauge will drop also at about 0 the tank will be empty.

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wepaddle4

01-10-2006 09:23:33




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
There are electronic level sensors that are used in underground storage tanks that will give you what you want, but I doubt you are interested in spending several thousand dollars.

Scott



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Crem

01-10-2006 08:58:21




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
This cistern talk reminds me of what happened a long time ago in a large cistern that we had on the farm. My dad pumped the water out of the cistern so that he could clean it. We had pretty rusty water and there was a lot of stuff left to get out to clean it up. My brother and I went down in the cistern and dad lowered down a 5 gallon pail on a rope. We would shovel it full and he would carry it away and empty it. I was fairly young, but my brother was five years older and he knew some dirty words. In between filling the pail my brother took a rock and scratched dirty words on the wall. It was the perfect hiding place as dad couldn't see it. When we finished cleaning up the floor, dad said that he was coming down to check it over. The walls of the cistern were covered with wet rusty stuff so my brother took his hand and smeared over the words to erase them. all was well until dad brought down a hose and sprayed the rusty stuff from the wall, and you know the rest of the story. :o)))

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Ron from IL

01-10-2006 08:09:06




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
Jay,

There was an article in an old Mother Earth News about building one using parts from Radio Shack (from the late 70's, early 80's). I was going to build one myself, but decided that it was just one more technological thingie to go bad, so I stuck with the stick (ha, ha!). Electrical contacts under water fail or corrode in time, and can be unreliable. I'd stay low tech if I were you.

Ron

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Tim B from MA

01-09-2006 19:48:34




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
A water level monitor set up for RV (campers) tanks might be the solution - won't give you volumes, just fraction full (e.g., 1/4, 1/2, etc.)

The probes are just screws through the side walls of the tank with a rubber gromet to seal.

Try looking on the web at RV parts suppliers. If you don't have any luck, post back here, I will get the name of the manufacture of the set-up I have in my camper.

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Don L C

01-09-2006 19:48:03




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
We had a Cistern under the back porch....one of the cistern walls was also one of the basement walls.....low on this wall was a pipe from the cistern with a valve.....I installed a "T" and a valve ,nipple ,a piece of 5/8" plastic tube from tractor supply.....ran tube straight up wall with screan over it to keek critters out.....fasten tube to the wall with copper 5/8 pipe hangers....
LEVEL IN HOSE IS SAME AS CISTERN....Wait until water is as low as you let it get...mark the wall add your water,say 1000 gal. mark again...divide distance by 10 ...each mark is 100 gal....

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Crem

01-09-2006 19:43:55




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
How about one of these float switches. The cistern at my sons place uses one of these float switches to turn on his submerrisible pump when the water level goes down.



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Jay (ND)

01-09-2006 19:34:38




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
I hate to sound low tech, but couldn't you tie a stick to a float, like a milk jug. Run it through a couple of rings to keep it vertical. Have marks on it for your reference.



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Jay (ND)

01-09-2006 19:37:43




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay (ND), 01-09-2006 19:34:38  
Or just take tether mercury switch like they have on sump pumps. Put it at the level you want and plug it into a light. When it gets to that level, the light goes on.



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gorilla

01-09-2006 18:18:49




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
Here is a site that carries water tank gages for fire apparatus. I dont know why that wouldnt work. It would tell you how much water you had by 1/4 tank increments just like on a fire pumper. Might be a cheaper way but here it is> Link



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sphargy42

01-09-2006 17:04:10




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
Jay, Couldn't you let the rod I described before hit a switch and turn a light on to alert you of low water ? You could also hook it to a led display very easily. good luck



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Jay87T

01-09-2006 16:28:59




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
well what Im looking for is some sort of digital meter or something that will tell me in the house if the water level is low in the cistern I cant seem to find anything like this anywhere? anyone ever hear of some thing like this? or is it time to invent one?



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Slowpoke

01-10-2006 00:11:24




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 16:28:59  
How about a 'safety float switch'? Grainger 2P874, 10 amps @ 115v. Can be wired normally open or normally closed. $8.50. You'll need to devise a float rod to operate it since the factory float rod is only a few inches long. Used to turn off AC or furnaces due to rising water levels. Beckett model # 1502UR



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T_Bone

01-09-2006 17:01:49




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 16:28:59  
Hi Jay,

Tell me how your refilling your cistern, then I describe the controls to buy.

If you having your water hauled, you can make your own meter for $50.

If your refilling via deep well then I can tell you controls to buy for about $100.

That'll save me some typing unless someone else wants to know.

T_Bone



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Jay87T

01-10-2006 04:22:41




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to T_Bone, 01-09-2006 17:01:49  
Hey T_bone I have the water trucked in. I guess there are no pre made kits designed just for cisterns out there eh? Everything Im reading leads me to believe nobody out there sells something like this.



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T_Bone

01-11-2006 07:58:20




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-10-2006 04:22:41  
third party image

Hi Jay,

Cistern Water Level Sensor

How this sensor works is low voltage is suppiled from a battery to power one side of the LED's. Voltage then travels thru each coresponding wire to the probe stick located in the cistern to each sensing probe. If the water level covers that probe then it completes the circuit thru the water to the GN wire thus lighting that LED on the light panel inside the house. If the water level is below a probe, then the circuit is broken and can not light the LED inside the house.

The GN wire is located near the bottom of the tank. This wire completes the circuit and will always be in water. When the last LED goes out then you don't have but very little water left.

Example:
If the R wire probe is covered with water, then all LED's on the light strip would lite up.

If the R wire probe is not covered by water, then all LED's on the lite strip would lte up except the "R"-LED.

If the Y wire probe is not covered by water, then all LED's on the lite strip would lite up except the "R","Y"-LED. Etc; Until the tank is empty.

Battery:
The sensor can be supplied voltage by a battery power. The needed voltage is determined by the number of LED's you install in the circuit. Each LED needs 1.3v to work. So if you use 10 LED's then you would need approx 15v from a battery. Two 9v battery's in series will work just fine. Leave about 2v extra for circuit resistance voltage drop.


Resistors:
R1 thru R7 are 1kohm pull up resistors to keep the LED's from requiring over current demand. Any 1kohm resistor from Radio Shack will work. Add one resistor in series for each LED.


Control Cable:
Any 18awg solid copper multi-wire will work. Thermostat wire is very cheap and will work well for this application upto 250ft in length and is multi colored for keeping the wires straight of where they connect. LEave plenty of extra wire on SS flatbar for each probe. Just strip back the wire insulation 1/2" and use the end of the wire as the probe.

The wire ends inside the water will need cleaned once every two years to make best contact. Be sure to leave extra wire available at the cistern to trim off for new probes when needed.


SS Flatbar:
Use a piece of 1-1/2" wide x 1/16" thick to mount the probe wires on. Just drill two 1/8" holes where you want the probe wire then weave the wire into the two holes. Do not let the wires short to the SS flat bar/rod. You could also use 3/8" round rod for this. Use SS to keep it from
rusting. Bend a "U" to hang the flatbar on the tank lid or?

Radio Shack makes all kinds of nice enclosers to mount the LED's and battery in. You can use all one color of LED or mix different colors of lights.

How many LED's to use is how sensitive you want your water level reading. Divide your tank hieght by the number of LED's installed to tell number of gallons left inside the tank. With 10 LED's using a 2000gal tank then each LED would represent 200gal.


Since I don't believe in explaining high voltage wiring via internet I'll let you figure out if you want to add a transformer to replace the battery's. Be sure you know what your doing if your choose this option as you don't EVER want line voltage inside the tank.

T_Bone

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sphargy42

01-09-2006 15:59:28




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
On the towboats where I use to work , we used a float stick . a stainless tank with a long rod protruding out the top of the tank with inches on it. or you can mark it in gallons. all you need is about a 2 foot long guide in the top of the cistern for the rod to go through. simple and CHEAP . I like cheap.



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BOB FROM IL

01-09-2006 15:30:18




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
7.48 gallons per square foot



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Bus Driver

01-09-2006 16:17:51




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to BOB FROM IL, 01-09-2006 15:30:18  
Cubic foot is volume, square foot is area.



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Jerry/MT

01-09-2006 15:14:20




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 Re: Cistern Measurement... in reply to Jay87T, 01-09-2006 15:00:10  
I don't know of any direct measure of volume. For small volumes you can use a weigh method but for a 2000 gallon cistern that's not practical. The best way to determine the capacity is to figure out the volume and then measure the depth to tell you how much is actually in the tank.



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