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Wire welder for farm use, dirty,oily,painted metal

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chuckinnc

01-09-2006 11:08:14

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Seems all the new welders and supplies are going
to wire feed type, im thinking the rods are going
to go up in price as demand goes down so im ready
to consider a wire/mig welder. Problem is i use 6011 rods on everything because
im into repairing my equipment not fabricating
stuff with new clean steel. All the types of wire
i have found sofar all say (use on clean steel, no
oil or paint). Is this true or is there a type of
wire thats good for farm use like the old 6011.

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500sks

01-11-2006 04:32:46

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Re: Wire welder for farm use, dirty,oily,painted m in reply to chuckinnc, 01-09-2006 11:08:14

I used to work in a truck shop we used a miller matic 200 and flux core wire and CO2. This will weld dirty steel like you would not beleive. We used the same wire for all of our frame work and never had any problems but that is nice clean new steel, we added frame rail to trucks everyday 5 days a week. The flux core is more expensive but if you are working on old dirty stuff get some and try it you will like it.

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Tim...Ok

01-10-2006 08:37:56

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Re: Wire welder for farm use, dirty,oily,painted m in reply to chuckinnc, 01-09-2006 11:08:14

I bought a new Miller 250X 4 years ago,250amp machine,my thought were I would use it for thinner stuff and use my stick for the heavier welding..I think my stick has been fired up 2 or 3 times since,then stuff was just too big to get into the shop.. with .035 wire,I can weld right thru powder coating,not that I recommend it,but it WILL do it..clean shiny metal is best,no matter what your welding with,but I've found the MIG to be no more picky than the arc.. Wind is my worst problem, I have to close my shop doors to weld, in the summertime,gets a little warm in there...One day a couple years ago,105 degree day welding with the doors closed,shop temp was 146 I haven't played with the flux core,but I've heard it is more forgiving on the wind..I use the 75/25 mix..

Tim

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Seth_ia

01-09-2006 16:53:14

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Re: Wire welder for farm use, dirty,oily,painted m in reply to chuckinnc, 01-09-2006 11:08:14

I use our millermatic 200 on all kinds of dirty old steel. No welder really is ment to be used on dirty steel if the weld is vital to safety or structial integrety. If a break could causes a lot of damage or injuries, clean the steel properly. For thicker metal you need atleast a 200 amp capacity welder. Am welding quarter inch thick right now on a project with no problem. Thicker steel needs thicker wire. Since my steel is usually dirty, I use the best wire I can get. It has a 70,000 tensile strength just like 7018 rods. I also use an argon/CO2 blend since my shop is cold and the steel is dirty. There is also a triblend shielding gas available that contains 5% oxygen. My neighbor uses that in his fabrication business. That little bit of oxygen really cleans the steel nice. Rember both stick and MIG have there place. MIG is of little value when its windy, but is great in the shop. Neither are going anywhere in the near future.

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Stan in Oly, WA

01-09-2006 13:24:37

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Re: Wire welder for farm use, dirty,oily,painted m in reply to chuckinnc, 01-09-2006 11:08:14

Hi Chuck,

Stick is not the Betamax of welding. The customer base for stick welders is enormous and still growing strongly. Wirefeed is great but it has all the limitations that NcNE listed and quite a few he didn't bother to mention.

I love wirefeed and I wouldn't be w/o it, but if I could only have one welder I'd choose a good stick machine. Not because I'm an old time weldor, set in my ways, either. I'm an old timer, and I am set in my ways in a lot of things, but I've only been welding for a few years (wish I'd started about 30 years sooner) and I don't have any prejudices based on the way I've always welded things.

If you have to take your welder to the work sometimes, instead of always being able to take the work to your welder, I'd advise you to go with stick. It's a lot more versatile than most people ever know because you have to take the time to get fairly good with it before you can find out how much it can do. It's worth the time, though, IMHO.

All the best, Stan

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Bus Driver

01-09-2006 16:22:22

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Re: Wire welder for farm use, dirty,oily,painted m in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 01-09-2006 13:24:37

Well said, Stan. I am not an expert by any means, but have been welding for about 50 years as a hobbyist. I know of no better for dirty, rusty metal that the 6011. I use 7018 for clean thick metal, MIG with gas for 14 gage and thinner.

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Stan in Oly, WA

01-09-2006 18:26:18

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Re: Wire welder for farm use, dirty,oily,painted m in reply to Bus Driver, 01-09-2006 16:22:22

Hi, Bus Driver

Actually, you are an expert as far as I'm concerned. When I first discovered this forum a few years back I started by reading every message posted in the archives that was even slightly of interest to me. When someone wrote something particularly informative (to me) I would copy it into a Word file.

Since I wasn't experienced enough to evaluate the validity of every piece of information I collected, I rated the reliability of people by how good their information was on things I did know about. You might be interested to know that the name Bus Driver was listed along with T_Bone, Mark KW, Steve-US Alloys, and a few others whose advice I felt I could always count on. That's some pretty good company, in my opinion.

Thanks for the good advice, and all the best, Stan

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Gene Davis (Ga.)

01-09-2006 19:52:54

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Re: Wire welder for farm use, dirty,oily,painted m in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 01-09-2006 18:26:18

Amen to the above!!

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NcNE

01-09-2006 11:49:33

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Re: Wire welder for farm use, dirty,oily,painted m in reply to chuckinnc, 01-09-2006 11:08:14

As far as welding outfits leaning toward wire machines you're right. However I think it will be a long time before stick goes by the wayside. When purchasing a welding machine there are a few things you must consider. The first being location. Where do you do the majority of your welding? If you do the majority of your welding outdoors or in areas with a lot of air movement, you need to select a flux-core machine. Instead of using externally supplied gas as the sole means of shielding, the shielding comes from powder inside the electrode wire and can be used with or without ext. supplied gas. I also noticed that you mentioned that you use E6011 frequently for your projects. This also tells me that you should consider a flux-core machine as it doesn't require extremely clean base metal. (however, the cleaner the base metal, the better the welding ability) The next, thing to consider is thickness range. Your thickness range with a wire machine is nearly infinite with the right wire. If the majority of your welding consists of metals with a thickness of over 1/4" I would suggest a higher end machine as you can obtain wires of upto 3/32" in dia. Duty cycle is another thing to consider, up how many consecutive minutes in a 10 min. period you spend welding. For wire welding I would suggest a duty cycle of at least 50%. If you're planning on welding thicker metal, mostly outdoors I would just stay with stick. Feel free to email any more questions you have. I would be more than happy to help you select a wire and or machine.

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hay

01-09-2006 11:35:16

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Re: Wire welder for farm use, dirty,oily,painted m in reply to chuckinnc, 01-09-2006 11:08:14

i never got a very good weld with a wire welder on dirty oily, painted metal. it has to be cleaned well first. i mostly use a stick welder with 6011 electrodes on the really cruddy metal and even then some of the welds are not the best.

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RustyFarmall

01-09-2006 11:29:33

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Re: Wire welder for farm use, dirty,oily,painted m in reply to chuckinnc, 01-09-2006 11:08:14

I have welded some pretty nasty stuff with mine. Can't remember what type of wire I am using, but it is meant for auto body work, I still need to make a clean spot for the ground clamp, and clean a small area so I can get the arc started. Once the arc is started I just weld away.

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