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Building a new shop and would like advice

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Richard

02-16-2001 18:18:42




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I'm having a 30' x 50' x 12' shop built in about three weeks. I wanted to vary from the tradition door at each end and do something else. For my location, I would like to install the shop longwise N to S, then have 2 10'x10' doors pointed east, and a 10x10 door pointing south. To keep the air flow, I will have 3 windows (3'x6') installed on the back wall (west side) and 1 3x6 window on the north side.

Our wind is mainly south southeast. Does this arrangement seem like it will move enough air thought the shop without damming.

My most desired way is to install the 1 end door at the north side for conveinence,(thats the side the driveway is on) but I'm afraid I will not get the air flow needed in the summer time.

Next, are the open/close type roof vents worth the money, will they help air flow or mainly help vent the heat?

Next, I will have a 6hp 220v air compressor, a Lincoln AC/DC cracker box, and several hi-intensity lights. I will pull power from from my homes meter box and run it about 250' to the shop. What is a good wire size? 2-0?

Thanks, for any ideas.

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Ray M41

02-18-2001 20:19:20




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 Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to Richard, 02-16-2001 18:18:42  
I'm about 200 miles south of you and well aware of the south Texas heat. Them barns get hot no matter what you do. They are good for storage but h*** to work in. If you plan to do much welding I suggest a 10 X 10 open sided lean-to on the south or east side. Build you a sturdy fab table under it. Set your welder and cutting torch just inside the door. You will be amazed in how much you can get done under that roof. It will work well when the cold north winds blow too.
250 feet is a long ways for service. You may need to rebuild the service on the house. Get you some estimates. I believe you will come out cheaper to put in a seperate service even with the monthly service charge for the additional meter. Wonder why I couldn't post the "h" word?

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ltf in nc

02-18-2001 18:44:55




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 Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to Richard, 02-16-2001 18:18:42  
Richard, I would embed some floor anchors in the concrete. They are handy for pulling/straightening various things or just securing a piece of equipment. Good luck



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Shep (compiling a list of my same question checklist)

02-18-2001 11:57:34




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 Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to Richard, 02-16-2001 18:18:42  
got alot of other info I can share - just need to finish organizing. Could not find my previous post in the archives.
kimme a day or two
shep



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Tom

02-17-2001 18:04:42




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 Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to Richard, 02-16-2001 18:18:42  
Use a lot insulation. Six in in the walls and 10-12 in the ceiling, min. It will pay for itself in fuel saving and comfort shortly.



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T_Bone

02-17-2001 15:57:21




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 Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to Richard, 02-16-2001 18:18:42  
Hi Richard, I would not want my main doors facing the storm side of the shop because when a strom does hit you can't keep water, dirt, leafs etc: from entering the shop. Put the doors where there the most handy for you and use other means for venting the shop.

Roof wind powered turbine vents are very effictive if the roof has the proper pitch. The higher the pitch the cooler the shop will stay without insulating. Remember heat rises so use that to vent the shop. A normal house needs 4 air changes per/hr for comfort and a shop would need about 30 air changes/hr for comfort. That would mean you need 9000cfm of air venting for your size of shop. They also make a vented ridge cap that lets hot air out but keeps water, etc: out. If a over lapping roof ridge design is used then no additional roof venting is required but not too many people like this design any more but is how the old timers did it.

If you screen the windows, remember screen cuts the air flow down by 75%.

You can use a natural cool air under ground system . This uses a under ground space, pipes, chamber void, water trap, etc:, 8ft under ground. At 8ft the ground temp does not change temperature year around.

If you run your electrical under ground, besure to use plastic pipe for the wires. See plastic pipe does have a use! Too many rodents like the taste of wire insulation. If you bury it deep enough 24", I used 1/2" sch10 PVC, one for each wire, and yes I know it's against code!!! but it was cheap and mine was not a code install.

T_Bone

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VaTom

02-18-2001 09:29:54




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 Re: Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to T_Bone, 02-17-2001 15:57:21  
T_Bone wrote :
"You can use a natural cool air under ground system . This uses a under ground space, pipes, chamber void, water trap, etc:, 8ft under ground. At 8ft the ground temp does not change temperature year around."

Next best thing to making the whole shop underground. That's my plan. A little more difficult in flatland but on this mountain I live under 2' of dirt, have 8' tall windows, have an air change every 2 hours, and have little need for heat or air conditioning. I now have to heat the shop to keep contents, occupants included, from freezing. Next one is going underground.

Material cost for the shell comes in at $10.50/ sq. ft. which includes a forever roof. This is cast-in-place concrete and some serious steel. I just picked up a pile of bar joists at auction for $70. Cost just went down to around $5/ft. Dehumidification in a humid climate is something to be serious about but sure makes it comfortable inside. And make mildew and rust a non-issue. And, yes, my neighbors, who all have their stoves going hard on this 20* morning, think I'm strange.

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AD

02-17-2001 12:03:49




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 Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to Richard, 02-16-2001 18:18:42  
I tried to post earlier but couldn't get it to go through so some will be repeat. I would check into a seperate service for the shop. I pay the min nearly every month and if you have to upgrade your house circuit to carry the shop the cost of upgrade and wire could be spent on large service for shop and several months of min charge. I believe the insulation under the roof would also be well spent money in your area. Just my $0.02 AD

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John Ne.

02-17-2001 13:53:21




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 Re: Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to AD, 02-17-2001 12:03:49  
Insulation under the roof would definitely be worth it, If you're thinking of any big welding projects, would put in an exhaust fan too. Am putting ceiling fans in my 20x40 shop, just to stir the air in the summer. John Ne.



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Al English

02-17-2001 11:04:03




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 Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to Richard, 02-16-2001 18:18:42  
Hi Richard, I have a 36x60x12 pole building. It has ridge and soffit vents, but in the summer(Michigan) there is a tremendous amount of heat trapped under the roof. I think venting this out will be a big help, and might even provide some additional air circulation. I'm planning to vent mine before summer this year.

Depending on where you are located and how the building will be used, here's something else to think about. If you have much ground moisture, put a heavy polyethylene vapor barrier under the floor slab. A lot of moisture can migrate into your shop through a concrete floor. It makes a noticable difference to machinery, equipment, and parts. If you plan to heat the building a layer of foam insulation under the floor makes it a lot more comfortable and easier to heat. And finally, wire reinforcement in the floor won't stop it from cracking. But it will keep the cracks you do get even and tight. Good luck...Al English

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John Ne.

02-16-2001 21:20:13




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 Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to Richard, 02-16-2001 18:18:42  
Richard, First what part of the country are you in? thinking of heating and cooling here. I'd like a door on the north just for the sake of movement, a blind end of the shop will collect things in a big hurry. What are you using the shop for? Tractors? Welding? Woodwork? Painting? Your own? Commercial? Sounds like you have enough windows, but with the size of them, will they need bars? A shop attracts some of the nasties, looking for quick cash. And can it and the main doors be seen from the house? Again thinking of security here. Happy is the man putting up a new shop, Good going.

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Richard

02-17-2001 05:17:33




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 Re: Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to John Ne., 02-16-2001 21:20:13  
I have a little over 20 acres in South Texas (Victoria, by Corpus Christi). It's easily hits 105 degrees here in the summer, and are winters aren't too harsh compared to most, but the wind does like to blow. I will put security bars on the windows and they will be designed to slide plywood in to block the glass. Makes for quick hurricane preparation.

I don't really expect too many problems with theives out here, but heck, about the time you feel safe someone empties an entire house just blocks down the road.

I think I will put 2 big doors on the west wall and the 1 big door on the North end wall. I think I can see an advantage right off, I can limited the amount of wind with the North Door and South Windows. Too much wind can be a pain sometimes like when building an engine, or trying to weld!

Insulation? I've thought hard about it, but I'm wondering how well it will actually benefit me in the summer.

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VaTom

02-17-2001 03:58:25




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 Re: Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to John Ne., 02-16-2001 21:20:13  
After two attempts in two nights to get into my somewhat isolated shop, I put in an alarm system and a driveway sensor. Not a major investment and I sleep a whole lot better. I was lucky, the drunks were afraid to break my tempered glass windows. They bent the deadbolt so much I couldn't open it. Steel door worked pretty well. I sure wouldn't want to be working behind barred windows. A decent alarm system can cost as little as $125. Not much to hooking one up.

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Old Sparky

02-17-2001 05:33:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to VaTom, 02-17-2001 03:58:25  
Your electrical plan, if it is the only one available to you, will work. 250' is pushing the limits on distance. Offsetting this is the fact that this will be a one person shop. Maybe the compressor and one other major item running at the same time. The actual electrical load at a moment will not be great. Consider a separate electrical service, but that involves another minimum billing fee each month. Good luck. It will be a moment of joy when you get in and can go to work.

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Bill D

02-17-2001 06:01:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to Old Sparky, 02-17-2001 05:33:16  
Put in a floor drain! as much and as heavy an electrical system that you can afford then double it for the other toys that will come use GFI`s in all of your circuits Pipe the air around the shop so that you do not have to stumble over hoses on the floor In your area a gable end exhaust fan would be a good investment GOOD LIGHTING Plenty of benches and cabinets that can be locked Tell the family don`t buy me clothes buy me tools for gifts

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Al English

02-17-2001 07:13:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Building a new shop and would like advice in reply to Bill D, 02-17-2001 06:01:48  
Most places have gotten pretty touchy about floor drains. At the very least an oil/grease trap will be required...Al English



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