New Shop, or Extension Cords Ain't Gonna do it....

House currently has 200A power, which is run overhead. Pole to house distance is about 100�, clear run, and line runs directly overhead of the new shop. The shop corner will be about 10� from the pole.

I�m planning on running the power underground from the pole to the shop, up into a meter base, back down and then underground the last 90 feet and reconnected to the house. The meter base on the house needs replaced, and this way I get rid of the overhead wire and can run everything off the meter which will be mounted to the rear corner of the shop. The power company gave me their blessing on the new set-up, because they can read the new meter from their truck instead of hiking thru the back yard.

Now the questions.

What type of meter base do I need to get 200A into the shop and also run 200A to the house? Neighborhood electrical �pro� says I need some type of huge ($$) meter base to get 200 into the shop, where 100 could be run thru a regular base. I really don�t want to even consider 100 in the shop. Heat, A/C, 8-240 outlets, 30 or so 120 outlets, compressor, welder, you get the idea.

I already purchased all the grey 2� PVC conduit for the trench including 4-24� sweeps. What size/# wire do I need to run from the base to the house?

I plan on using a 20-40 space SquareD or Homeline panel inside the shop. Does the panel need to be mounted directly behind the base or do I have some wiggle room? Do I need to run a chunk of conduit thru the wall from the base to the panel to meet code?

Thanks for the help!

Scott

Where I live the power co is responsible for the meter, so it is hard to relate to your needs. Very different if you need to supply the meter!

I upgraded the farm to 200 amp service, 100 amps to the house, 60 amps to each of the 8 ot 9 outbuildings. Much of the wire is handling a 200 amp ptential tho, to branch out to the different buildings.

Distance is a _huge_ factor in the size wire you need to feed 200 amps. The three al wires in some of my runs are as thick as a finger.

I can't imagine a need for more than 100 amps in a normal house. Neither could my power co or electrician.

If you are the only one working in your shop, then you will not need more than 100 amps their either. If you have several working, then yea a gang of welders can pull a lot.

If you need 400 amps, then that's what you need. But I'd look at your needs real carefully, and consider what you truely need. A 200 amp service at the shop with 100 amps going to the house would sure save you a pile of money, if that will do it for you. Not telling you what you need, just making sure you are considering needs.

If you add it up, I have 100 amp to the house, 60 amp to - uh, it is 9 outbuildings, that would be breaker boxes totalling 640 amps! But, on a 200 amp service. With 2 or 3 people on the place, an't ever use all 640 amps. :) :) :)

As of July, I believe you will need to have a main breaker at your meter. Used to be you needed a disconnect, but now you need a breaker. Or soething like that, my electricians don't think much of the new law, but of course complied.

Would be good if you got a local person to design this for you. If you are doing this youself & all, become real good friends with the local inspector. There is one NEC code, but many different interpetations of it!!! The inspector came out 3 weeks ago to look at my installation. He looked at 4 outbuildings, the house, the main meter box, slapped some stickers on, & left. Never did look at the other 5 buildings, never did look for a ground rod, or 3 vs 4 wires to the main box, etc. You need to do whatever the local inspector wants, which can be some gray shades of what we are telling you.....

--->Paul

--->Paul

Since he was going to use the in-law house as a business office for awhile before the inlaws moved in, he mounted a meter socket inside above the service panel and installed a digital watt/hour meter, so he could keep track of and charge out electricty as a business expense of the office.

Do it right, easier the first time than to go back and do it again, or not do it over and regret it all along.

Charles

I don't think it's a big deal, though. You will have 200 amp service to a 200 amp meter base. This is pretty much standard. The meter base is then double tapped to two service disconnects: a 100 amp box for the shop, and a 200 amp box for the house. Yes, I know that 100 + 200 = 300 amps, but you should be able to convince the inspector that you'll never pull more than 200 amps total for the house and shop.

Mount your shop breaker panel (100 amp) wherever you want in the shop. As long as you have a service disconnect at the meter you can do this. You'll need to run at least #2 Al to the breaker panel; 2 hot conductors plus ground/neutral. I think the inspector would like to see conduit from the disconnect to the panel, but it shouldn't be required if you use the appropriate cable.

Likewise at the house you will need a 200 amp breaker panel, which it sounds like you already have. You'll run the appropriate gauge cable underground (4/0 Al, I suppose), but you'll need four wires: 2 hot conductors, neutral and ground. Use USE cable, and you can go direct burial. (Conduit is only needed where the cable enters and exits the ground.)

You'll have to set ground rods (2 each) at the shop and also at the house.

Note that the ground and neutral must be separate at the house breaker panel. (They are probably jumpered together today.)

You never run aluminum cable inside a building. Aluminum is ok for the feed to the meter but not to go to your breaker panel.

Also if you have a main disconnect separate from the breaker panel you need 4 wires from the main disconnect to the breaker panel. The main disconnect panel is the only place where neutral and ground are common.

You can run only 3 wires underground (or overhead) from the meter if the main disconnect is not at the meter but at the house. Anything before the main disconnect the neutral and ground can be common. Anything after the main disconnect must have separate ground and neutral lines (4 wires) if the main disconnect is not in the breaker panel.

Regards
Gary

Guys,
Thanks for all the help!

I can't go into detail right now, but I'll get back to you later tonight. I was finally able to figure how to get a plan out of my CAD program so I am posting a pic of the layout.

The pole is in the lower right hand corner. The overhead line runs to the far rear corner of the house, where the junk meter base is. The overhead line is about 8 inches above the roof of the shop, and we got this clearance by temping in a piece of 2" rigid on the house roof to lift the line 4 feet for shop truss clearance.

In the grand scheme of things, we already have the trench and condiut to run underground all the way from the pole to the existing meter base position on the house. Running a line underground from the pole to a new meter base on the house then back to the shop seems like an awfull long way to go for juice!

I'll go into more detail later, but I thought a pic might clear things up a bit!

Scott

although the neighborhood "pro" is probably knowledgeable, the power company will not hook you up if it's not exactly right. i'd talk to them right off. they don't charge for this, and will no doubt appreciate your consideration in asking them.

they or your electrician can tell you what you need for underground cable to the house.

again, check with them about code as far as meter base to entrance panel connection, but i wouldn't even consider running entrance cable through a wall without conduit.
you can put the entrance panel anywhere you want on the other side of the wall from the meter base (within reason). just use conduit. in fact, it may be easier to run the cables through conduit and into both boxes from a side, top, or bottom, to connect the cables to the lugs. cable heavy enough for 200a doesn't bend easily, and some meter bases and entrance panels don't have much room in them for bending.
my 2 cents
old bones

Regards
Gary

i don't know how it is where you are, but here (n iowa) the rec is responsible for everything to the meter loop. i had them put in a larger transformer and heavy enough wire for 400a. we used the original square d qo disconnect panel for the outbuildings (this went through the meter), and put in another 200a panel for the house, feeding it from the entrance cables.

the r.e.c. had us put in some kind of thing that the house wire (that portion between the main entrance cable and the house disconnect panel, near the top of the pole) runs through. looks like a donut. there are small wires, 12gauge or so, that run to the meter. this donut "thing" senses the flow of electricity and adds it to the meter reading.

this fixed the problem of not enough power to the place, and was not expensive at all. unless you need a separate meter for the shop, there may be an additional charge for another meter (unless i missed the point in your post).
if this sounds like what you're after, talk to your power company. if they can't figure out what i tried to explain, post back and i'll find out what the real terminology is. i usually hang out in the deere forum.
old bones

For use with overhead or underground wiring systems.

MODEL INFORMATION:

* Switch and Meter Socket are in one attractive enclosure to simplify installation.

* Separate cover on Meter Socket section may be sealed against unauthorized entry.

* Rated 200 amp and 400 amp, 240v or 600v. Single phase only. 100 amp, 240v only.

* Optional CENTER-OFF also available making it UL Listed and Suitable for Use as Service Equipment.

* Meter Socket base uses a horn bypass. Lever bypass is available.

APPLICATIONS:

For average-sized operations with overhead wiring.

MODEL INFORMATION:

* Single-phase or Three-phase

* Rated 200 amp, 400 amp, and 800 amp, 240v or 600v. 800 amp switch uses 600 amp auxiliary contacts.

* Corrosion-resistant aluminum handle.

* Drip-loop entry with straight-through wiring for fast installation.

* Available with integral current transformers.

* Standard 200 amp and 400 amp, 240v switches are UL Listed.


APPLICATIONS:

For use with underground wiring systems.

MODEL INFORMATION:

* Single-phase or Three Phase

* Rated 200 amp, 400 amp, and 800 amp, 240v or 600v. Also 100 amp, 240v, single-phase only. 800 amp switches use 600 amp auxiliary contacts.

* Standard 200 amp and 400 amp, 240v switches are UL Listed.

* Available with CENTER-OFF with "Suitable for Use as Service Equipment" rating in 200 amp or 400 amp, 240v only.


*HOME *ADD-A-PHASE *PHASE SHIFTER *ROTO-CON *ROTOVERTER *DOUBLE THROW SWITCHES *OTHER PRODUCTS *E-MAIL US

I would be inclined to leave the house power as is and put in a second meter for the shop. The wire will be expensive to the house. I think 2/0 is required for copper underground. 2/0 copper is what is required from meter to your panel. I wouldn't worry in the least whether they have to get out of the truck to read the meter. Letting the power company provide the wire is much cheaper up front and if there is ever a problem with it they fix it at their expense.

You do not need conduit between meter and breaker panel however I would use either plastic or metal conduit. You are allowed 3 or 4 feet of cable inside your house before it goes into the main breaker panel. If it will be further than that running inside then you need a main disconnect breaker outside and then you can run any distance inside the building to the breaker panel.

I would not put in anything less than 200 amp service. You may not need that much power but you may need the number of breakers that a 200 amp panel provides in the future. I would not downsize the house from 200 amp service either for the same reason.

Regards
Gary