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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

OT - Old Western Plow won't stay up...

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Truck

11-30-2005 04:55:34




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Hey guys, I was hoping someone had already run into this problem and could steer me in the right direction.. I picked up an old CJ-5 with a Western 4 way plow on it. It has a belt driven pump, a separate resevoir, and two valves to run the up down and the turn cylinders. The turn valve has two springs on it to center it when you aren't turning. They have broken and center is kinda hard to find from the cab

The plow is slow to lift and immediately drifts down so one is forced to keep pulllng the lever for "up" so you don't drag the plow on the ground all the time. No matter what position I put the left right lever in there seems to be bo difference in the drifting down. If I have the plow off the ground it will turn no problem at a normal rate of speed.

I am thinking there is a problem with the up down valve but I've never been inside one.. ANybody out there familiar with this system and know what usually goes wrong?

Thanks!

Truck from upstate NY where we already got a foot of snow over turkey week.

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MMRTI

12-01-2005 07:06:35




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 Re: OT - Old Western Plow won't stay up... in reply to Truck, 11-30-2005 04:55:34  
I have several of the exact same western plows but they were on F250's. I like the engine driven ones. The one did exactly as you describe. The origional pumps and valves are all aluminum and subject to wear. The pressure relief on the pump is adjustable. The spring may be weak so you can tighten it. That worked in my case. I am sure on mine the control valve has an internal leak. Mine have a breather on the lift cylinder and oil would come out the breather if the cylinder leaked. The other one was re-worked and the valves probably were not correct for that application. I am not a hydraulic expert but maybe the lift valve is designed for power buyond. Good luck and have a nice day.

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CJ-maybe

11-30-2005 14:58:29




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 Re: OT - Old Western Plow won't stay up... in reply to Truck, 11-30-2005 04:55:34  
Going on the assumption that it's 'stock'-not hacked-the lift cyl is a single acting,if it leaks that fast oil would be blowing out the packing gland,I'm thinking valves.You said 2 valves.2 seperate,the angle supplied from a tee in the lift line,have to hold lift to angle?Sounds like the ones I've worked on,common for old systems.If you can describe how its plumbed it would help,but I'm thinking lift valve.Gonna depend on what valves also.The angle valve,just find 2 matched springs the right length to hold it(not critical) or go to an OLDER plow,big truck company that has Monarch plow or liftgate parts,I'm not near my parts or I would get a dimension for you.

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Truck

11-30-2005 18:28:20




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 Re: OT - Old Western Plow won't stay up... in reply to CJ-maybe, 11-30-2005 14:58:29  
Cme to think of it, you're right, you do have to hold the lift to angle..

One hose goes to the lift cylinder..
Each turn cylinder has one hose. THe turn valve is off a tee from the lift valve as you described..

I'm curious what I will find inside the lift valve that will need replacing/fixing.. Perhaps simple O rings are all that is wrong? Or do these valves have seats that go bad?



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CJ-maybe

12-02-2005 09:56:34




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 Re: OT - Old Western Plow won't stay up... in reply to Truck, 11-30-2005 18:28:20  
I was also gonna ask(got sidetracked),When the plow lowers itself does it angle?I got to thinking,you have a problem with the angle not staying in center,or neutral.If its the setup I think,when all is ok,with the plow up and you angle only(not lifting at the same time)it will fall and angle.Make sure angle is dead center or disconnect the supply from the tee,plug,and see if the lift works right.I've never had to take one a part,only pump problems.If they're the valves I think,they're not sliding spools in a bore,but a rotating cyl in a bore. Both usually machined fit,a seal where the lever exits the body.I hope I don't have you all messed up here,just going on a guess,not seeing it myself.Let us know what you find,and I'll try to explain how those valves work together better if you want.

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j105

11-30-2005 05:40:36




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 Re: OT - Old Western Plow won't stay up... in reply to Truck, 11-30-2005 04:55:34  
it sounds to me like there may be an internal leak in the lift cylinder. most likely there is a bad o-ring on the piston in the hydraulic cylinder so oil is leaking past. one easy way to check the cylinder without tearing it apart is to remove the return line and then lift the plow. the oil that is in the cylinder will obviously be expelled, but if oil continues to come out once the plow has lifted, it is definetly a bad o-ring. be sure to direct the oil away from the vehicle or people because it will make quite a mess, preferrably use a hose and direct it into a bucket. if it is determined you must tear down the hyd cylinder and replace the o-ring its might be a good idea to also check the piston to make sure it is perfectly round. use a simple caliper. These pistons are most often made of aluminum. I had cylinder problems on a ne holland bale wagon, it would need new o-rings every year, i discovered the piston was out of round, replace it and solved the annual problem. also look for scores or pitted areas inside the cylinder barrel. its possible there has been some moisture in it. unless severely damaged the barrel can be honed and made like new. remember cleanliness is key when working on hyd components

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