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Generator question

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Dan GI

11-21-2005 10:25:12




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Last week when our power went out for quite some time. I hooked our generator (generac 4000 watt)to the house to run some essential things. We programed our clock radios so we could wake up in the morning. 8 hours later both of our clocks were running about 20 minutes fast. My guess is that the generator is not putting out 60hz. Could the engine be possibly spinning too fast or is it just a poor generator? It was advertised as being safe for computer equipment, but maybe that is just in relation to voltage. Any thoughts?

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Fred OH

11-28-2005 10:17:13




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 Re: Generator question in reply to Dan GI, 11-21-2005 10:25:12  
Well, you could set the clock an amount at bedtime to compensate for the fast running so it will be more accurate in the morning and not worry about the error.....or there is a clock that has an antenna on it that sets it"s own time from the atomic clocks in Boulder, Colorado. I don"t know how often it resets but I"m sure it would do it every few hours. I think Radio Shack sells them and others....and of course theres the old Big Ben wind up. Fred OH

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wfw

11-21-2005 13:24:30




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 Re: Generator question in reply to Dan GI, 11-21-2005 10:25:12  
Most ac clocks get their timing from the 60 hz ac power. Your generator probably was off some n frequency to cause your problem, not enough to cause any other problems though



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Red Dave

11-21-2005 11:01:15




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 Re: Generator question in reply to Dan GI, 11-21-2005 10:25:12  
It's possible if the clocks are using line frequency as their time base.
There is no way that an inexpensive generator can hold frequency as closely as the electrical system does. I did a little quick math and that would mean that the generator would be about 1% high in frequency, if I did the math right. (somebody please correct me if I did it wrong)
Not very far off for a 4kw generator. Read your manual, it may even be within spec's.

I wouldn't worry much about it.
I think there would be much more risk of damage from an underfrequency condition than a 1% overfrequency.

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Farmer in the Dells (WI)

11-21-2005 13:33:38




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 Re: Generator question in reply to Red Dave, 11-21-2005 11:01:15  
OK. So being way in the dark on this one, let me ask two things. First if I ran a battery booster off the AC from the generator and an inverter from the 12v booster back to AC would that bring the frequency back or closer to to 60? Second, I have an alarm clock that always runs 20 to 30 minutes fast on regular house current. Is it in the clock that makes this one piece affected by the frequency. Non of my other devices seem to be a problem.

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Bus Driver

11-21-2005 16:07:28




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 Re: Generator question in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI) , 11-21-2005 13:33:38  
20 to 30 minutes fast in what time span between resetting? Maybe some Chinese who made them packed on intended for Europe which has 50 Hz power. Such a clock will run too fast on 60Hz.



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Red Dave

11-21-2005 15:44:46




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 Re: Generator question in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI) , 11-21-2005 13:33:38  
1st Question - No. The output frequency of the inverter is controlled by it's internal oscillator and will run at that frequency without regard to the frequency of the generator.

2nd Question - I have no idea why one clock would get off and the others would stay on time. Since it's the one, and other clocks in the house are OK, it's probably something wrong in that clock.



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ScottP

11-21-2005 15:42:24




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 Re: Generator question in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI) , 11-21-2005 13:33:38  
Farmer
If you hooked up the booster to a battery and the inverter to the same battery it would work. Grid power isn't always at 60 cycles. Around here it is usually at 59 cycles. The proper way to set the speed on a generator is with a frequency meter. Adjust the speed to 62 cycles with no load on the generator.
When a load is applied to the genset it will settle down around 60 cycles.
Scott

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buickanddeere

11-21-2005 22:31:11




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 Re: Generator question in reply to ScottP, 11-21-2005 15:42:24  
Not possible if your utility's lines are tied to the National Power Grid.



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ScottP

11-22-2005 08:25:59




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 Re: Generator question in reply to buickanddeere, 11-21-2005 22:31:11  
B&D
Hop yourself on a plane and fly out here and I'll show you. Bring your own meter. I have checked it with two diffrent Fluke meters 59 hertz on both.
Scott



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buickanddeere

11-22-2005 13:26:45




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 Re: Generator question in reply to ScottP, 11-22-2005 08:25:59  
How can you have cables with 59Hz on one end and 60 hz on the other?I suspect the meter cal is off a wee bit.



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RandyBEE

11-21-2005 11:23:03




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 Re: Generator question in reply to Red Dave, 11-21-2005 11:01:15  
I basically agree with Red Dave but I think the error is about 4% which is still small error. I think your frequency is about 62Hz which is not too bad. You would need a expensive controller to hold the freq to 60Hz exactly. I have worked at a location that used military generators and electric clocks with motors were always 15-20 minutes off in 24 hours. There was lots of sensitive electronic equipment on that generator with no problems. Use a crystal based clock and you will have no problem

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Red Dave

11-21-2005 15:55:36




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 Re: Generator question in reply to RandyBEE, 11-21-2005 11:23:03  
I think you're right Randy. I did the calculation in a hurry as I was getting ready to leave work. I came up with about 62 hertz too, but blew it on the percentage. Should have been more careful.

Governors that can control speed more closely are available, but few people could afford to own a generator with one on. Small generators are hyper-sensitive to fluctuations in load. Many reasons such as small amount of spinning mass and motors starting and stopping are a very large percentage of generator capacity, economics of the governor costing as much as the generator etc.

All that said, I still don't think 62 hertz will hurt anything.

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Jon Hagen

11-21-2005 12:42:20




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 Re: Generator question in reply to RandyBEE, 11-21-2005 11:23:03  
A few years ago we had an ice storm that knocked out power for most of the day,so we went on generator power ( 80 KW winpower) and set the electronic clock on one of the VCR's. Well the generator frequency must have been a bit off of std 60 cycle,because that clock gained time when back on the normal grid power,I had to cut power to the vcr for several hours untill the clocks internal backup battery died,so the clock could recover it's default settings and show accurate time on 60 cycle AC.

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