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Transporting Gas Cylinders

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Keith

02-06-2001 07:30:51




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I have heard that cylinders should be transported, stored, and used in the vertical position. I do not own a vehicle that is capable of transporting cylinders in the verticle position. What are my options? I plan on renting/leasing a couple of the smaller tanks (oxygen and acetylene) and have also heard that if they have be in the horizontal position that they will need to be stood vertically for 24 hours before use. Any truth to this?

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Jeff G. Starlite welding supplies....Duncan Ok.

10-19-2001 18:04:23




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 Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to Keith, 02-06-2001 07:30:51  
When transporting compressed gas cylinders it is ok to lay them down including acetylene cylinders. However, the acetylene cylinder must be in a verticle position while in use. This is to prevent liquid acetone from getting in your regulator, hose, and torch. Acetone will destroy the rubber hose, diaphrams in the regulator, and the o rings in your torch. The acetone is put in the cylinder during the filling process to allow the filler material in the cylinder to absorb the acetylene. Acetylene while in the cylinder is accually a solvent that becomes a gas as the pressure is lowered during use. As for the oxygen cylinder it dosnt matter what position it is in during use as it is a dry gass. During transportion keep the cylinder caps on for safety and do not transport or store in an enclosed vehicle. It is also a good idea to carry an MSDS paper in the glove box so if you have an accident. You may be asked for it. It is a paper that describes what the gasses are and thier safety hazards. The papers are free and should be avalible at your gass supplier. I hope this is of help to you.

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Chances R

02-09-2001 04:11:41




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 Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to Keith, 02-06-2001 07:30:51  

I use to haul these darn things for living, it was the worst job I ever had. It is my understanding that the (acetylene) should be stood upright at least as long of time as it was horizontal before you use it. From what I can remember you can transport them laying down, the main thing is keep them out of enclosed area and strapped down well. As a driver, we always hauled them standing up.

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Nathan(GA) - Learned something new

02-07-2001 13:11:49




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 Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to Keith, 02-06-2001 07:30:51  
I used to weld in an industrial setting, with MSHA and OSHA safety classes yearly. I never knew about not transporting on the side. We did it a thousand times from the shop to the site. I know not to "use" the acetylene on it's side. But, we were never told of the danger in transporting on it's side. I guess we were lucky, because we would unload the cylinders, stand them up, tie them off, hook up the guages and go to cutting. Thanks for the info. I learn something new on this board quite often.

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An Example.....T_Bone

02-07-2001 06:45:31




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 Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to Keith, 02-06-2001 07:30:51  
Hi All, You know it just takes one time of everything being correct for someone to leave earth before there time.

I have a friend that lost his son(50yrs old) because he didn't take the time to install the safety plugs, carry the cylinders in a open veichle, secure the cylinders and not smoke, on some 7.5gal propane cylinders he just had filled.

He had them filled and loaded them into a van unsecured. Turned a corner on the street and and one of the cylinders fell over and the valve hit a piece of pipe he was carrying opening the valve to a good hard flow. He heard the gas escaping turned his head to see what it was and BOOM. His ciggerate ignited the gas. He jamed on the breaks, going 15mph, got out of the van and fell to the ground. The ME said he had inhaled the fire ball burning 70% of his lungs in one breath. He lived for about 8hrs in extreame pain before he died!

Talk about a freak accident because these cylinders also had the safety collar on them protecting the valve and the valve just didn't open a small amount, it opened to a very high flow as this all happened in 15sec!
The other stupid mistakes he made were just that and he'll never make them again!

There is a reason for safety rules and this story proves that.

T_Bone

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Neil

02-07-2001 07:06:52




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 Re: Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to An Example.....T_Bone, 02-07-2001 06:45:31  
How much safety is enough?
It is easy to find examples where you do everything wrong and the results are bad.
It is also easy to find examples where everything is done right and the results are still bad.
Heck, you can even quote examples where everything was done wrong that the results are fine.
None of these teache us much.
The important lesons are in the details. If you have to cary compressed gas, secure the cylinder!
If you have to deal with famible materials, don't smoke.

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T_Bone

02-07-2001 14:17:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to Neil, 02-07-2001 07:06:52  
Hi Neil, It takes some people alot of different approches to drive home the point of safety. Just look thru some of the safety discussions on this board and read the responses. Some people need to hear the horrible stories to be able to relate to what can happen in learning why safety is such a concern. Does it teach us anything? I sure hope it would to someone!

It's very easy to get hurt
But we have to work very hard not to get hurt!

T_Bone

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MarkB

02-07-2001 02:53:30




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 Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to Keith, 02-06-2001 07:30:51  
One more thing: If you are transporting your acetylene cylinder in an enclosed vehicle (e.g. car/van/suv), make certain that your windows are open! Leaky cylinder valves are quite common, and are responsible for many of the spectacular pictures you see posted at gas dealers.

My experience is that while most dealers post large notices saying that they won't load cylinders into an enclosed vehicle, in practice they ignore this rule.

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Steve U.S. Alloys

02-06-2001 17:07:33




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 Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to Keith, 02-06-2001 07:30:51  
Hi Kieth,
Mark Kw is absolutely right.

It is illegal for a gas house to place an acetylene cylinder in a car or any enclosed vessel. Some tanks valves will develop a bad seal and leak with age or abuse. If placed in an enclosed vehicle you would have the same effect when the dome light or trunk light came on as in the case of the natural gas leak in a building that is ignited by a light being turned on or an appliance starting. There are other considerations as well.

It is also a fact that a cylinder of acetylene that was placed on it's side should stand upright for at least 24 hours prior to use and that it should never be used while laying on it's side. I personally am not comfortable transporting them in any position but upright and secured. (Can't stand the thought of my wife spending my life insurance money on some younger guy.)

Before Acetylene (C2H2)is pumped into a cylinder, the cylinder is filled with a substance that absorbs acetone. Quite often this substance is pith (made from corn stalks) or fullers earth. The bottle is then filled with C2H2 and the theory is that each molecule of C2H2 has a molecule of acetone on each side which keeps the C2H2 stable at pressures over 15#. If the cylinder is laid on it's side for a period of time, the acetone drains to one side leaving some of the C2H2 unstable. Also, if you draw more than 1/7th of the capacity of the cylinder per hour, you risk drawing the acetone out with the C2H2. Thus the reason for using manifolds. A flame containing acetone will take on a purplish hue and leave an oily resiue.

If you examine the cylinder closely you will also notice two small threaded plugs. These are located in the top of the cylinder on either side of the valve or else on the bottom side of the cylinder protected by the bottom collar. Those are safety plugs that are filled with an alloy that melts at 212°F. In the event of a fire, this alloy will melt and release the contents of the cylinder. This prevents the tank from blevying.

When I teach a safety class on oxy-fuel apparatus in a school or manufacturing facility these are just a few of the things those in attendance will learn. There is much more to know about this matter and the manifolds mentioned earlier. There is a good chance that your oxy-acetylene torch is the most potentially lethal item on your property.

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Russ

02-06-2001 11:45:55




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 Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to Keith, 02-06-2001 07:30:51  
I`ve seen some real impressive pictures of the vehicles, that a few unfortunate souls tried to transport cylinders in. If you must transport a cylinder on it`s side, you have to be sure that it cannot move around, even in an accident, and that any potentially escaping gas is vented to the outside atmosphere. I have seen first hand the damage done when an oxygen cylinder fell over, cracked the valve, and took off like a torpedo. Safety chains and caps always. Another thing, if you have to transport a bottle on it`s side, don`t do it with your kids in the car. They look to you for guidance and protection, don`t they? Russ

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GPWT

02-06-2001 09:26:26




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 Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to Keith, 02-06-2001 07:30:51  
The compressed gasses like oxygen should be OK on their sides as long as there is no liquid such as with propane or butane. Definitely do not use acetylene unless the cylinder is vertical, horizontal use will allow entrained acetone to be withdrawn during use. The acetone stabilizes the acetylene, without it the cylinder stands a good change of detonating! If an acetylene cylinder is on it's side you should stand it upright and let it settle before use. I am told up to 24 hours of settling time is needed.

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Neil

02-06-2001 09:00:16




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 Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to Keith, 02-06-2001 07:30:51  
The storage and use issues seem like it could be a problem with "liquified gasses" but not with "true gasses".
As for Transportation, may have something to do with safety in case of an accident.



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Tyler(WA)

02-06-2001 07:37:38




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 Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to Keith, 02-06-2001 07:30:51  
I have heard that for years but when my buddy showed up with a middle sized acceteylene tank on it's side in his truck and he went to use it, I asked about the safety. He said, "that's correct if you store it that way but they can take a few hours laying on their side with no problem."

Must be something to it.... Keith's still here and he does a fair amount of cutting.



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Tyler(WA)

02-06-2001 09:42:40




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 Re: Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to Tyler(WA), 02-06-2001 07:37:38  
Keith NEVER used that cylinder on it's side. You should never use an accetylene bottle while it is anything but vertical for the good reasons pointed out by GPWT.

It's still best to keep them vertical but in a pinch, you can lay one down for a short time and then stand it up for use.

Using an accetylene bottle on its side is a sure way to meet Jesus, face to face.



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Mark Kw

02-06-2001 14:35:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to Tyler(WA) , 02-06-2001 09:42:40  
Federal DOT laws state that all high pressure cylinders must be transported in the vertical position and in either an open air bed or a compartment vented to the atmosphere. All cylinders must be secured and capped. LP tanks that will accept a cap must have it installed and those that will not take a cap must have a solid plug installed in the valve port. The only exception to the vertical transport laws is for breathing air tanks permanently mounted in emergency vehicles.

Laying an acetylene tank on it's side at any time can cause it to destabilize whether you are using it or not. If a cylinder of acetylene is on it's side, the minimum time required for it to be in the vertical position is 24 hours.

Just because some people cheat death once or many times does make the practice right or safe. I have often times seen acetylene gas in the hoses cranked up to 25 psi even though it is very possible for it to self ignite in the hose above 22 psi. Just because some of these guys get away with it does not make it any safer.

This falls along the same line as those people who choose to not wear their seat belts. Many people got away without them in the past but this morning I got to see a guy impaled on a tree limb 20' off the ground. He was driving without his seat belt, his wife, passenger in the same car walked away without injury because she had her belt on. Think about it!

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bob

02-06-2001 14:58:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to Mark Kw, 02-06-2001 14:35:24  
I disagree about letting set upright 24 hrs Have used them for 40 years and by the time you get guages hooked up and adjusted they are stable The tanks that scarenme are the real little ones they gey laid down and every which way . Also remember if you take over 1-5 contents out of yank perm hour it is unstable



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Mark Kw

02-06-2001 15:07:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Transporting Gas Cylinders in reply to bob, 02-06-2001 14:58:13  
Just stating the facts from Fed. DOT and the gas mfg's. Do what you want, just stay far enough away from me when you do it. I don't use that dirty gas anyway, just nice clean LP.



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