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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

chainsaw gas

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Rob in Missouri

10-29-2005 19:31:45




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A friend of mine insists that a 50;1 mixture in a chainsaw is too light and causes the saw to wear out faster. He says 40:1 is better even if your saw calls for 50:1. It seems to make sense,but will it damage the saw. What is the reason for 50:1 mixture?




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jeffcat

10-31-2005 22:49:54




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 Re: chainsaw gas in reply to Rob in Missouri, 10-29-2005 19:31:45  
Boy do I agree with Butch on this one! I have thrown in here several times to use the modern stuff in the little bottles with stabil in it! Read the label on the bottle. No problem with anything I own. I use metal Just Rite saftey cans for my mix. They keep it fresh and safe. I have like eight cans from the flea market and all of them were between $5 to 8 bucks each. New weedeater all the way down to my 1952 7hp Mall two man. Plenty of McCulloch saws from 650s to 15 , 35, PM 1000, 640, 1-40 and D30. They all run well and very little smoke. Just a normal exhaust from any old 2 stroker. If you can't breath and have a smoke screen, you got too dam--n much oil in the mix. I use sthil or husky or echo one gallon mix bottles. Only cost around $1.30 each. MANY, many advances in oils since 1950 folks. Don't sweat the details and use saw mixes and NOT marine stuff. Another thing I found is with bar oil. Think the "sticky" new type bar oil is better? So did I till a couple of auto oiler pumps failed. The stuff is tooooo thick for a lot of older saws and I had to raplace the pumps . Use 30 or 40wt oil and just keep refilling the tank. You get plenty of lube and it lets the pump work with less strain. Sticky wood aka pine and such is cleaner with just plain 30wt. This story could go on for the next ten days but I have found this works just fine for me. My $.02 Jeffcat.

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Butch(OH)

10-31-2005 06:55:50




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 Re: chainsaw gas in reply to Rob in Missouri, 10-29-2005 19:31:45  
I suspect that part of the reasoning behind 50-1 mixtures is emissions but none the less they work with modern mixing oils. 50-1 likely would not work with the 30Wt non detergent oil reccomended in a 1950s David Bradley. Pretty hard to reccomend a 50-1 mix ratio when the lube to do it was not yet invented eh? One thing that a lot of people dont consider when playing with mix ratios is it changes fuel air ratios, going from 50-1 to 40-1 with no adjustment leans the engine and causes hot temps. Why? more oil and less gas going through the system. More oil also increases carbon build up and lowers the octane of the mixture so the more oil cant hurt and might help crowd is off base a bit. Personaly I run Stihl oil at 50-1 in every two cycle thingajig I own and did the same thing with Mac oil at their reccomended ratio when it was around. I would use Husky or other quality brand oils without reservation too. This includes some antique saws that are supposed to run like 32-1 with 30Wt, to modern saws, to weed whackers to leaf blowers. I suspect that most problems blamed on mix ratios are actualy other problems such as poor tuning, poor maintanace, poor operating technique and forgetting to put the mixing oil in to start with. A person can internet search this subject and find all kinds of facts to support whatever stance he would like to take. Take it all to heart and you will be afraid to start your saw or weed whacker for the piston will sieze and rod will break if the mix ratio and oil used is not exactly what some cyberspace engine spert says it must be, lol.

Your not going to junk out your saw motor by running the ratio reccomended by the Manf. If you want to run 40-1 be sure to adjust the carb for it and check for carbon build up more often than reccomended.

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buickanddeere

10-31-2005 16:30:17




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 Re: chainsaw gas in reply to Butch(OH), 10-31-2005 06:55:50  
Butch you remined me of something when talking about air/fuel ratios. As the mixture gets leaner and burns hotter. The engine has more of a tendency to suffer detonation/ping/knock. Thing of it is you will not hear the knocking but you will find piston(s) with hole(s) burned through them. That's not a lube problem but detonation. For all the fuel your little two stroke use. Burn the highest octane non ethanol gasoline you can find. Manufactures have been squeezing more and more HP from engines with higher compression. Then running engines hotter and leaner to reduce emissions.Knock, knock, knock.

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Butch(OH)

10-31-2005 17:55:29




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 Re: chainsaw gas in reply to buickanddeere, 10-31-2005 16:30:17  
Yessir, lean equals hot which means detonation that eats saw motors. Extra oil actualy increases the possibility of detonation in more ways than I listed. Lean air fuel ratio equals heat plus deposits from over oiling add to compression ratio and provide for glowing embers to detonate fuel. Saw motors are hi-po by nature and run on the ragged edge of detonation and heat, at least in the pro models by Stihl and Husky. I think homeowner saw motors are less HP per CC for a reason, less carefull and knowledgeable operators. My 036 and 660 motors are "right there" meaning they dont tolerate old fuel, 89 octane regular or by guess oil ratios. Cant find non ethonol gasoline anywhere around here, Been running 91 octane with forementioned Stihl oil. Prolly need to re seal the carbs early but what can I do? None of my so-called knowledge comes from science, just from running saws for quite a spell and luckily with no major engine problems. If you wanna see some long winded arguments on the subject check out the chainsaw forum on the arborists site, a nutter of my hangouts.

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buickanddeere

10-30-2005 18:45:37




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 Re: chainsaw gas in reply to Rob in Missouri, 10-29-2005 19:31:45  
The type of two stroke oil is just as important as the mix ratio. An oil blended to burn clean in a cool running water cooled outboard motor. Will not provide full lubrication to a hot running chainsaw engine.



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Leland

10-30-2005 18:26:10




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 Re: chainsaw gas in reply to Rob in Missouri, 10-29-2005 19:31:45  
buy a quality synthetic oil like tanka and you need not worry about under lubing or fouling or plugging ports .



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Johnski

10-30-2005 09:42:43




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 Re: chainsaw gas in reply to Rob in Missouri, 10-29-2005 19:31:45  
I recently attended a 2-cycle engine class and the instructor told us that 50:1 was good in anything. The key is to use a quality 50:1 Oil. It was sponsored by Husqvarna but he said that most major brands of oil were okay. Good oil also has fuel stabilizers added so there is no need to add them. Mixed gas should be used within about 3 months so don"t mix large amounts unless you need them. Also interesting, he said the design life of Husky saws and trimmers is 600 hrs. HTH JF

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Burnie

10-30-2005 01:59:02




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 Re: chainsaw gas in reply to Rob in Missouri, 10-29-2005 19:31:45  
Oil gas mix is critical. Not enough oil you'll get wear, too much and you'll eventually clog the ports. Like the other replies, I go with the manafacture's recommendation.



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BobMo

10-29-2005 21:33:36




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 Re: chainsaw gas in reply to Rob in Missouri, 10-29-2005 19:31:45  
Slowfreight is correct. Use the manufactures design recommendations. There is a reason they make them....



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Slofr8

10-29-2005 20:08:27




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 Re: chainsaw gas in reply to Rob in Missouri, 10-29-2005 19:31:45  
I have two saws I used all day, everyday for years back in the '80's when I cut wood for my bread and butter. I now use them every year for fire wood using the 50:1 mix recomended by the manufaturer. They still run like they did out of the box. Go with the manufactuers specs.
Dan



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