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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Frost Heave Pole Barn Foor

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smark

10-25-2005 18:24:47




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Im building my Pole Barn in Michigan. I am concerned when I put my concrete Floor down that it will heave with the frost and crack since there is no permiter Foundation except for the Poles. Are the Poles enough to stop Frost heave? I would like a floor that lasts a very long time.




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evilboweviel

10-26-2005 10:53:42




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 Re: Frost Heave Pole Barn Foor in reply to smark, 10-25-2005 18:24:47  
trench around the outside of the building to below frost line and install at least 1" (2" is better) blue foam board from top of concrete to below frost line. Also can bury it flat around the building for 4' out and not trench as deep. idea is to modify the frost line higher by insulating the ground from the weather and letting the natural heat rise in the ground. Studies have been done in Canada about this and supposedly will be used more and more.
Consider heating your floor with hot water using plastic tubing and a boiler. Insulate your floor from the fill if you do with high densisty foam sheets. Will make it much more comfortable to work on.
Good luck Ron

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Gus

10-26-2005 10:14:34




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 Re: Frost Heave Pole Barn Foor in reply to smark, 10-25-2005 18:24:47  
After tearing out and replacing lots of concrete where drive-in doors are, I would recommend a good footing under those doors. The slab outside my doors will rise 2&1/2 inches in the winter. Grade is well drained. Only sand under. The gravel idea from another post might have been worth doing.



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Bill in NorthCentral PA

10-26-2005 05:48:37




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 Re: Frost Heave Pole Barn Foor in reply to smark, 10-25-2005 18:24:47  
The comment about water freezing and sand not is right on the mark. With the outside of the building sloped away from the sides and ends, and with proper drainage, it will not heave any noticable amount. I have built several in areas that were "damp" and worst case scenario, we excavated a 8"+/- by 24" deep trench at 4' from the building and placed clean stone and drain tile (hard plastic, white - not black "snake" type) in the bottom of the ditch prior to backfilling with the clean stone. We use clean stone under the slabs (add 1/2" to concrete yardage calculations) rather than sand - probably a locality thing.

Good luck,

Bill

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MarkB_MI

10-25-2005 19:44:51




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 Re: Frost Heave Pole Barn Foor in reply to smark, 10-25-2005 18:24:47  
I've had no problem with upheaval in my pole barn. The main thing is to eliminate sources of expansion. Sand does not expand; water does. Make sure you have a sand or gravel bed under your concrete, with good drainage. Poor drainage and clay is a recipe for upheaval.



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Michael Soldan

10-25-2005 18:53:54




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 Re: Frost Heave Pole Barn Foor in reply to smark, 10-25-2005 18:24:47  
Smark, friend's 40x80 shed was a pole barn affair and he cemented the floor, expansion cuts every 8'. We are in southern Ontario and get much the same winters as Michigan. The floor floats on the frost. Your posts will be deep enough that the frost will not heave them. The only detail is around the doors where a footing was poured to prevent any movement around the door. I plan to cement my shed in the identical manner...Mike in Exeter Ontario

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paul

10-27-2005 07:03:15




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 Re: Frost Heave Pole Barn Foor in reply to Michael Soldan, 10-25-2005 18:53:54  
I read about this all the time, and there is something I don"t understand.

The poured floor is free-floating. Cool.

The door jam has a footer poured so it doesn"t float, stays put. Cool, just what you want.

Somewhere tho, your free-floating floor & the door jam need to meet. Are you pouring these seperate, or what? I don"t quite understand....

--->Paul



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