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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

OT:Chevy 6.2L pump question a bit long

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Redd

10-14-2005 18:01:35




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Have an old (83) K-20 with 250K miles always runs good. Driving home today, made a stop, started to leave, ran 5 seconds and stopped. Cranked good - not a bit of smoke. Checked for power to the shutoff solenoid-had power. Took top off pump, pump turning, sol. moving. Put elec fuel pump in line with mech lift pump and plenty of flow. buttoned up inj. pump and startrd up and ran fine. Took out elec pump, put back together runs and starts good. I have experience with changing these pumps and have schooled on them but haven't changed one in ten years. Can the shut off sol. be intermittent? She's a smoker and runs rough off idle, but hey, with that many miles I figure everything is contributing a little. Shes my beater and wood hauler and can't throw it away. Should I bite the bullet and put on a rebuilt pump? I really can't afford to replace the truck, but I don't want to start down that slope of replacing stuff. Thanks

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Thanks to all

10-15-2005 05:36:19




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 Re: OT:Chevy 6.2L pump question a bit long in reply to Redd, 10-14-2005 18:01:35  
Thanks for all the info. I do remember looking for the "coffee grounds" of the disintegrating retainer ring. I didn't see any in the pump body but I didn't check the return check either. When it quit, it was instantly which is why I right away thought of the shut down solenoid. And not the slighlest wisp of smoke. If it was a return check problem wouldn't it have at least puffed a little? I figure the cam ring is probably worn pretty bad with the high miles and my mileage is bad but it doesn't burn any oil and runs good. I also only drive probably 3 to 5k per year. Is the new and improved sol. available at the parts store? or only at the injector shop?

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kidbob

10-14-2005 21:10:28




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 Re: OT:Chevy 6.2L pump question a bit long in reply to Redd, 10-14-2005 18:01:35  
I have had a similar problem on my 6.2's, it was small pieces in the return check. To go a while longer without rebuilding the pump I just used a punch to knock the ball check out and put back the hollow fitting. It ran a lot more miles. 300,000 when the tranny went out.



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Bob

10-14-2005 21:32:22




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 Re: OT:Chevy 6.2L pump question a bit long in reply to kidbob, 10-14-2005 21:10:28  
It's not just a "ball check". It's a pressure regulating valve that controls, amongst other things, timing advance.

With the ball gone timing will advance 3 to 5 degrees, and diesel "knock" and wear and tear on the engine will be greatly increased.

Not a real good idea to do that to an engine you want to last for a while!



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Garry(NC)

10-14-2005 19:43:30




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 Re: OT:Chevy 6.2L pump question a bit long in reply to Redd, 10-14-2005 18:01:35  
We had one in a 85 1500 truck (185,000 miles) do the same thing a month or two ago. Put an elec. pump in the line like you did and in started up,took the elec pump out and it has been starting and running good since then. I am thinking that the mech. lift pump might be getting weak. The governor damper ring failing will put black bits of stuff into the return line check valve on top of the pump and can cause stoppage and erratic operation. That was the first thing I checked and all was clean. A relative rebuilds these pumps(he is 82 now) and cannot remember if he has gone through this particular one and neither can anyone else but that's not relevant to your problem. I think we are going to run this one and just see what happens, but it only gets driven 2-3k miles/year.
I do know that these pumps are more reliable that the electronic pumps on the 6.5l from the mid 1990's, I have one of those also.

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jdemaris

10-14-2005 19:36:52




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 Re: OT:Chevy 6.2L pump question a bit long in reply to Redd, 10-14-2005 18:01:35  
Just about anything can be "intermittent." But, since the pump turns, and the solenoid swing-arm is going back and forth like it should - there isn't much in the pump that can cause that sort of problem except maybe the delivery valve sticking - which is pretty rare. You might want to carry a jumper wire and if it does it again, try hooking 12 volt power directly to the solenoid terminal. The fully mechanical Roosamaster Stanadyne distributor pump is pretty straight forward and simple. If it gets highly worn, especially in the head and rotor section, it can get so that it will NOT start hot. But that's a totally different sympton than you are experiencing. When the truck died, did it shut down instantly, or peter out slowly? If slowly, any chance the return fuel fitting was plugged or a check-valve in the mechanical fuel pump was sticking? It might be worth your while to change the mech. fuel pump if it's very old. I change mine every 100K since it's a cheap insurance policy. I've got six trucks with 6.2s - I consider them the best engines G.M. ever used - Detroit Diesel designed them. My 87 Suburban just turned 500K miles and the engine has never been apart - it HAS had a couple of injector changes and I did the Roosamaster pump once - but it didn't fail - it was routine maintenance at 250K miles. I've also got a few K5 Blazers, a 91 GMC Suburban, and a 82 1/2 pickup - all 6.2s. Also got an 81 diesel Chevette - but that's a different story with a different engine company involved - it's got a Japanese Isuzu engine, not a Detroit 6.2. I guess now, if you want to buy a new Chevy or GMC - they TOO now have Isuzu engines (Duramax).

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Bob

10-14-2005 19:21:08




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 Re: OT:Chevy 6.2L pump question a bit long in reply to Redd, 10-14-2005 18:01:35  
My thoughts...

1.) You may have a leak at the fuel filter or lift pump or piping that let a bit of air in the system while it was shut off, or even throttle shaft "O" rings that are leaking a bit and let air in while was shut off. When you restarted it, and it ran a little while, this air hit the pump's hydraulic head, the engine shut down until it was primed (by the electric pump), or just simply passed the air, and then was able to fire up again.

2.) If it still has the original governor damper ring, pieces of that may be flaking off, and a piece may have lodged in the housing pressure regulating valve, and caused the engine to shut down. You may have cleared that out when you removed the pump top.

3.) You may actually have a ignition switch, wiring, or shutdown solenoid problem. A new and improved shutdown solenoid is only about $40.00 to $60.00, and is fairly easy to intall in the pump cover, which you are already familiar with, having had it off.

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jdemaris

10-14-2005 19:42:22




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 Re: OT:Chevy 6.2L pump question a bit long in reply to Bob, 10-14-2005 19:21:08  
To my knowledge and memory (which is sometimes wrong), the plastic governor weight-retainer dampener ring was no longer used in 83. I think a few early 82s had it but were recalled or received replacement pumps with a new ID tag on them. The older 5.7 Oldsmobile gas engines coverted to diesel did use the old style weight retainer rings.



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Bob

10-14-2005 20:46:44




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 Re: OT:Chevy 6.2L pump question a bit long in reply to jdemaris, 10-14-2005 19:42:22  
I recently replaced the governor damper ring in a 1984 Suburban, which I have no reason to suspect is not original, and it had the "bad" ring.

The pump number (DB2-4267) references to 1984-1985.



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jdemaris

10-15-2005 05:33:36




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 Re: OT:Chevy 6.2L pump question a bit long in reply to Bob, 10-14-2005 20:46:44  
That's good to know. I did all the pump rebuilding for a Deere dealer during the 70s-80s. Most of the Roosamaster pump failures were due to the plastic dampener falling apart or the transferpump regulating valve blowing out. Most of the pumps we worked on were JDB, DB, or C pumps. On the Deere equipment, none of the DB2s used the ring. When, in the late 70s, Chevy and GMC started selling the pickup trucks with the 350 Olds. gas engines converted-to-diesel, the local Chevy dealer was bringing them to us for repair. The engines were absolute junk with many engineering problems - one of them - according to Roosamaster was the unanticipated higher-then-normal underhood ambient temperatures that led to early pump failure. So, the race was on to change and/or improve the materials the dampener ring and umbrella shaft seals were made of. We were converting many of the pumps to the later style (ringless) retainer. Then, when Detroit Diesel got done designing the new 6.2 litre (379 c.i.) engine in 1982, we again were flooded with pump failures. Then an exchange program began - which consisted of removing the pumps and either replacing them or updating them. The pumps then got tagged - I can't remember for sure - but I think it was a blue metal tag attached to the top cover of the pump. It was one of the first things we'd look for when a failed truck came in. All my older 6.2s have tags - maybe there are areas in the country where the updates weren't done? At some point in time the updated pumps were installed on the vehicles new so the tags were no longer needed or used. I've got nine running 6.2s - some on the road and some on the farm - ranging from 1982 to 1991. I've had the pumps apart on most of them - but not all. It has always been routine maintenance, I've never had one fail. I have never come across the old style ring on any of them. Same goes for my 85 Ford wth the 6.9 IH engine. Maybe I've just been lucky. Most of my pumps are either tagged or are number DB2829.

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MAC,IL

10-14-2005 18:21:52




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 Re: OT:Chevy 6.2L pump question a bit long in reply to Redd, 10-14-2005 18:01:35  
jog my memory, is that an arm type pump or the push rod type pump? Reason asking, the push rod pumps that have the coil spring, sometimes the coil breaks and it does not have a complete return cycle.



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