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Electrical Experts

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Steven

09-03-2005 19:53:55




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Can I use indoor 14-2 romex wiring for an outdoor yard lamp. One of the 8ft tall black ones. I plan on buring it in 3/4 plastic water pipe. Is this a good idea? What is the difference between indoor/outdoor wiring? Thanks.




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Steven

09-05-2005 05:18:16




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 Re: Electrical Experts in reply to Steven, 09-03-2005 19:53:55  
Thanks for all the help. I'll do it right!



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dr.sportster

09-05-2005 14:31:12




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 Re: Electrical Experts in reply to Steven, 09-05-2005 05:18:16  
I would[run pvc pipe] bring feed out to GFI mounted [new] on post then on the load side of GFI feed back to sp switch and back up to light now the conductors up the light post are GFI covered also.The only wire in the pipe not on the GFI protection will be the feed to that post receptacle.You cant be to careful in residential electrical work.Or put a GFI breaker on that circuit feed in the panel.Burial detph 18"{guessing]not looking in code.

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buickanddeere

09-04-2005 11:47:35




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 Re: Electrical Experts in reply to Steven, 09-03-2005 19:53:55  
As previously stated no & no. Saving money will cost you. NMD-7 is for dry interior use only. Use real electrical conduit and RWU or THHN wire. May as well run two circuits, one neutral and two hots. Then put a GFI receptacle on the post. Conduit allows easy replacement or upgrades in the future without digging up the yard. Depending on the location, a ground rod at the lamp maybe a consideration.

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David - OR

09-05-2005 08:03:54




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 Re: Electrical Experts in reply to buickanddeere, 09-04-2005 11:47:35  
THHN is not rated for underground service, even in conduit. What you want is THWN or THWN-2. That said, a lot of what is sold as "THHN" is actually rated for multiple uses, typically you'll see "THHN or THWN-2 or MTW Gasoline and Oil Resistant" etc. Look at the insulation on the wire and make sure it includes at least one designation rated for use in a wet location. Pull the wires carefully to avoid damaging the thin layer of clear plastic on the very outside of the insulation -- that layer is what provides the "wet service" rating, and makes the difference between THHN and THWN. Some inspectors will fail the installation if they find nicks in this clear layer at the boxes at each end of the run.

There is no National Electrical Code prohibition against running UF wire in conduit for additional protection. Some local codes may frown upon it, and some local inspectors may have a problem with it, but there's no nationwide prohibition. As a technical matter, the ampacity should be OK despite the double layer of insulation -- UF conductors (like Romex) are rated for 90 degree (C) service, but the ampacity of 10, 12, and 14 AWG a limited to those from the 60 degree (C) table by other sections of the NEC.

It would not be fun to pull a flat cable assembly through very many turns of conduit. A straight shot should be OK.

The wire guage for submersible pump wiring is usually limited by voltage drop long before the ampacity limits are approached. A pump that could be adequately served by 14 AWG wire would have to be very close to the house, not far down the well, and not of very much horsepower. Starting performance, especially, will not be good with a long run of such light wire.

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RandyB

09-04-2005 10:22:03




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 Re: Electrical Experts in reply to Steven, 09-03-2005 19:53:55  
You might want to read this thread from another forum.



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Little Ed

09-04-2005 06:03:23




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 Re: Electrical Experts in reply to Steven, 09-03-2005 19:53:55  
I'm no electrical expert, but am beginning to purchase the needed supplies for doing the electric and plumbing for our new house, and have found that the gray electrical conduit is cheaper than the same size plumbing pvc, at least at the nearby Menard's store. You get a long sweep for your 90's too.



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MarkB_MI

09-04-2005 04:32:48




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 Re: Electrical Experts in reply to Steven, 09-03-2005 19:53:55  
You need to use underground feeder (UF). Looks like Romex but doesn't have the paper inside. Costs a little bit more. You'll see the difference when you strip it.

Bury it 2 feet deep and forget the pipe. Use PVC conduit where the cable enters and exits the ground, direct burial is OK elsewhere. Don't use PVC water pipe, it isn't intended for exposure to sunlight.



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old

09-03-2005 21:15:34




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 Re: Electrical Experts in reply to Steven, 09-03-2005 19:53:55  
Ya it will work but is not up to code! Your better off with wire for under ground and true gray pvc eletrical pipe. Insursance/code will want it that way.



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DaveCA

09-03-2005 20:41:39




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 Re: Electrical Experts in reply to Steven, 09-03-2005 19:53:55  
Buried PVC is considered a wet location. Romex isn"t suitable.



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Charles (in GA)

09-03-2005 20:33:27




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 Re: Electrical Experts in reply to Steven, 09-03-2005 19:53:55  
Have fun pulling that Romex thru that pipe.

I just finished helping a neighbor bury a wire over to a well, to replace a piece of old Romex the neighbors late father had strung overhead to the well. We bought 10/2 w/grd UF cable and intended to bury it direct. The ground is rocky and we were afraid of problems later on so we used 3/4 bellmouth PVC elect conduit for the 60 ft run. even with pull lube it was a bear, me pulling, the neighbor feeding it in.

What you want to do, yes it will work (if the run is not too far) and yes it will last a long time. Is it per code? I'm not sure but I doubt it is. use proper electrical PVC conduit and ends, you will be better off. The bellmouths are easy to glue and you can use the 90 and 45 pre bent pieces so you go box to box with the conduit. Whether its Romex, or Individual THHN wires inside really won't matter much, but don't quote me as saying its legal.

Charles

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Slowpoke

09-04-2005 09:33:18




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 Re: Electrical Experts in reply to Charles (in GA), 09-03-2005 20:33:27  
I believe it's illegal to run Romex thru conduit/pipe of any kind. Maybe the 10/2 uf also. It has to due with heat disapation. The pipe insulates the cable, temperature increases, and over time destroys the cable insulation which may lead to a short.



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Charles (in GA)

09-04-2005 21:22:46




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 Re: Electrical Experts in reply to Slowpoke, 09-04-2005 09:33:18  
Spent quite a while reading about this possibility. The only thing I can find is that derating of the circuit is required if more than THREE current carrying wires are contained in a bundle or conduit. In my case of a single 10/2 UF (220v/no netural)in a 3/4 pvc conduit, I suspect it doesn't matter, expecially considering the cable is underground and relatively cool, and cooled by the earth, and the individual wires are 90c/194f rated and as moulded into the UF they are derated to 60c/140f, and this is a relatively intermittent load, since it is a well pump, and would not generate any amount of heat in the wires.

This is a much better arraingment than what the neighbor originally had. Their now deceased father had, years ago, strung a 12/2 w/grd ROMEX overhead from the house to a pole some 60 ft away (with no supporting wire even!!!, where it went underground the last few feet to the well (actually using UF, probably installed by the well drillers).

In the case of the lamppost, Buickanddeere has it right, run a netural and two hots and install the GFCI weather proof outlet, especially if we are talking any distance, say 100 ft. where extension cords from the house are not feasable for elect trimmers, christmas lights,etc., but loads and amp capacity have to be considered too.

I am not an electrician, but have asked enough questions of two pros I know to know more than alot of so called electricians. I have a small library of references, that have distilled the huge, cumbersome NEC into the useful information for the average residential/shop/farm.

I always try to verify anything anyone tells me, especially if it doesn't seem right. I'm an aircraft mechanic by trade (airline) and rules, regulations, and policies and procedures are a way of life for me.

Charles

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