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Welder with high frequency option, what does that

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buickanddeere

08-22-2005 20:03:27




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As a rank amateur spatter welder my "new� welder will do AC, DC, high frequency stick and tig or mig when I get a argon tank/regulator/valve plus wire feed system. She goes up to 420 amps? What size of rod and thickness of metal that would require that amount of heat? So, what does high frequency start or high frequency continuous do while welding?




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jerrys51

09-25-2005 16:29:03




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to buickanddeere, 08-22-2005 20:03:27  
what u have is high production mach in wire and stick if u have big fab shop u have right mach check u amp drw.from elect on spection plate u might be drawing about 100 anp at fuze box at 400 amp welding amp i hope u have singel ph machine sound like u have 3 ph mach check u elect hook up 220., i use 3/32 7018 1/8 7018 1/8 6010 i build buildings trailor just about anything i dream up i have 250 dc/ 300ac never use ac look like a bee hive red wt 300 to 400lb i dought u never ust 400amp if u do go look at elect meter

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Fred Martin

08-25-2005 07:58:14




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to buickanddeere, 08-22-2005 20:03:27  
I also forgot to mention that when you setup a tig welder...they tell you to ground it well and if the building is metal...to ground it too. The setup/operator manual said that they would open and close the neighbors garage door or make his toaster jump up before the toast was done.....also they recommended keeping the points adjusted to I think .008". I think they would also get into a tv but only if it had a rabbit ear antenna system or had a pre-amp on it. Fred OH

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T_Bone

08-23-2005 14:54:50




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to buickanddeere, 08-22-2005 20:03:27  
Hi B&D,

I guess the best discription of using high frequency(HF) for welding is it's used to extend the arc length, the distance from the electrode to the base metal, without contaminating the electrode with molten metal from the weld puddle.

HF-start(HFs), is useful when welding SS/CU, etc; metals and you don't want arc start tracks left on the surface of the surrounding base metal. In this case the HF will assist the starting arc to jump an open distance without touching the base metal. After the arc is established then the HFs is turned off automaticaly via a timed circuit. There are usually two HFs adjustments, one for arc intensisity (jump distance) and one for HF shut off delay. HFs is very useful on using a Tig(GTAW) torch without a remote foot control or also called scratch start Tig. Even if you have a remote foot control, there are times when it's not handy to use it but still use HFs. HFs can also be used on other welding proceses, mainly SMAW(stick) but really isn't useful for GMAW(Mig).

HF-continious(HFc), is best suited for Tig welding Aluminum. In this process were using AC-HFc. The AC is used to clean the base metal as it's being welded by alternating the current thru the base metal thus cleaning it to receive the filler metal. To keep the electrode away from the molten puddle we add HFc and this allows the tungsten electode arc length to be increased so the tungsten does not become contaminated with the molten metal as the current alternates. Once the tungsten electrode becomes contaminated with the molten metal then the arc becomes very difficult to control as it causes the arc to be scattered inconsistantly on the base metal surface.

I'm sure there's many more uses for both HFs and HFc on automatic welding.

I welded some 1/2" thick CU brew kettles with manual wet Tig at 360amps with a 1200� preheat using HFs.

About the largest size stick electrode that can easly manualy used is 1/4" as the molten puddle is huge and can be difficult to control. I've used some 1/4" 7018 to put the cover pass on some new D9 Cat track grouser bars that were worn down. The grouser bar caps were about 1-1/2" thick and about 24" long if I remember correct, about 40yrs ago. I do remember how hot the electrode holder was even with putting the holder in a bucket of water and waring two gloves the holder was still hot by the time you burnt a rod.

Usually 400amps plus is used mostly by automaic welding processes.

T_Bone

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buickanddeere

08-23-2005 20:50:15




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to T_Bone, 08-23-2005 14:54:50  
Thanks guys. I'm going to have to study up on welding and find a night school course. I had no idea I knew so little about such a complex trade.



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Bill VA

08-28-2005 15:14:49




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to buickanddeere, 08-23-2005 20:50:15  
Hey buickanddeere, I am in the same boat as you! I bought an old Miller Dialarc HF welder. It too can stick and tig. After doing some cosmetic restoration and some new power and welding leads, it has been ready to go.

For starters, I"m giving stick a workout. When I learn that, with some night classes, I"ll move on to tig.

Both Miller and Hobart have some great forums, in addition to this one.

Good luck,
Bill

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Steve Crum

08-25-2005 05:14:30




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to buickanddeere, 08-23-2005 20:50:15  
Don't even have a decent stereo system in the area while your using HF. I fried 2 before I smartened up. HF start plasma cutters are the same way especially on computers. The new CNC plasma table I'm in process of installing will have all the computer components in a separate steel enclosed 'control room', all the steel is grounded directly to earth ground rods.



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buickanddeere

08-25-2005 11:34:28




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to Steve Crum, 08-25-2005 05:14:30  
With Spark Gap transmitters being illegal for 80+ years. I didn't think of the AC arc with the HF component. The energy at close range would overload the front end of any radio reciever.



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Bud in NC

08-23-2005 14:31:44




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to buickanddeere, 08-22-2005 20:03:27  
Seems like the main use for high frequency is for a "soft start" and to "scrub" the surface of aluminum during welding to prevent it from oxidizing so it"s easier to weld.....the brain cells have been through a LOT so that may not be completely accurate but maybe an expert will fill in the blanks.



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Bus Driver

08-23-2005 04:35:12




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to buickanddeere, 08-22-2005 20:03:27  
Electric arcs depend on ionized air to conduct across open spaces. With 60 cycle, there is (relatively speaking) quite a lot of time for the ionized air to dissipate during current cycle reversal. This is true even with rectified DC. High frequency minimizes the time in which no current is flowing and thus helps stabilize the arc.



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Stan in Oly, WA

08-23-2005 01:20:50




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to buickanddeere, 08-22-2005 20:03:27  
Hi, buickanddeere

A chart in the Lincoln Stick Electrode Product Catalog shows 1/4" Jetweld LH-70 (7018 H4R) rods running over a range of 290-430 DC+, and 5/16" at 400-530. Jetweld 1 (7024) 1/4" at 340-440 AC, and Jetweld 2 (6027) 1/4" at 350-450 AC.

All the best, Stan



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Dr.EVIL

08-23-2005 08:37:22




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 08-23-2005 01:20:50  
One welding shop I used to deal with when I worked for the foundry had a 1/2" dia. welding rod on the counter by the cash register. Rod with flux was about 1-1/4" in dia. X 20-some inches long. 1/4" rod and 1/16" MIG wire was pretty common for everything We did. Everything We did was B-I-G. Had to pre-heat before everything, cool slow. Most things were higher carbon alloy steel, used a LOT of 110-18 LH rod.

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T_Bone

08-24-2005 02:15:41




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to Dr.EVIL, 08-23-2005 08:37:22  
Hi Dr.E,

Now there's some experience that you've had that hasn't really been explored on this forum, using the larger diameter electrodes.

Please tell us about some of the projects you worked on, discribing the weld process you needed to use and the working process it took to make the projects.

I'm sure I'm not the only one interested hearing about it.

T_Bone



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Dr.EVIL

08-24-2005 10:11:31




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to T_Bone, 08-24-2005 02:15:41  
Ohhh No, I wasn't the "Weldor". I did spend a LOT of time in the foundry watching weld repairs and arc-airing go on, and the castings We machined at Our division get welded on. And I bought all the welding consumables like rod & wire but I didn't weld. Engineering & the Weldors set up the spec's for the consumables for Me to buy. But the largest rod I've run is I think 5/32" I've been around arc welding since I was old enough to walk into Dad's shop. I've got an OLD AC buzzbox, MIG, and torches and Son & I are looking at buying a TIG sometime this fall so I can weld but I know My limitations! I've heard people talk about butt-welding soda cans together and I thought it sounded fun! The parts they welded and arc-aired were cast alloy steel components used in everything from automobile shredders (Imagine a HUGE hammermill feed grinder 10 feet wide & 6-8 feet in diameter weighing 65,000-85,000#) parts for dirt scrapers for CAT, tank parts, rock crushers. Some of the castings weighed up to 20,000#

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old

08-22-2005 21:00:06




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to buickanddeere, 08-22-2005 20:03:27  
The HF is for tig welding and also to make it easier to start a stick. The HF keeps the tig going. As far as going up to 420 amps that will weld 1 inch plus or could also be used for an air arc cutting tourch



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Fred Martin

08-22-2005 20:27:39




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to buickanddeere, 08-22-2005 20:03:27  
I have a Hobart high frequency attachment right here at the shop that you could take the cover off of and study if you weren"t so far away. Off the top of my head...I recall it has a transformer, large inductor coil and a set of points in it...plus switches. I think it"s use is to take the 60 cycle and run it up to about 20k and that makes it real smooth to start welding with as in tig welding. I found it real cute to the curious folks wanting to know about tig welding to push the button on the torch that energised the high frequency and hold it next to the palm of my hand and watch it arc a blue flame in my hand....and then offer it to the curious onlooker to do. I never got a taker though...it wouldn"t burn or shock you if you kept it moving. Usually, I think they just thought I was crazy and went on their way....but I got to smile a lot. Fred OH

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xragman

08-23-2005 07:18:48




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 Re: Welder with high frequency option, what does t in reply to Fred Martin, 08-22-2005 20:27:39  
hey fred
Thanks for the memories, some 30 years ago I did the same, lotta laffs.



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