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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Transformers ???

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Chuck UR

08-21-2005 05:29:21




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Since I don't know anything about electricity - except that it bites ! - I have a question.
Is there an inexpensive transformer made that changes 110vac to 12vdc ?
The reason I'm asking is that I'd like to build a jobsite boom-box out of an old car radio.
I'd build a box of plywood scraps and use a car radio, speakers and flexible antenae.




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mechanicalmike

08-24-2005 13:15:52




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
take the power supply out of an old computer and us it.



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2M

08-22-2005 21:19:04




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
You can use a standard battery charger without the battery if you use enough capacitance on the charger output. I use a car stereo with a cheapo 2/10 Amp charger with a 24000 microfarad 24 volt capacitor and have no hum. If youre interested, do a search for electrolytic capacitors. I got mine from the local university power elctronics lab when they were doing a little house cleaning. I would not use anything with a voltage rating less than 24 V to be safe and keep in mind these capacitors have a polarity just like a battery. With the capacitor, you will not have to worry about cooking a battery and the possibility of spilling acid inside your box. The capacitor I have is approx. 2.5" in diameter and 6" long. They should be cheap (<$10), but I have never tried to buy one retail. HTH.

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MarkB_MI

08-23-2005 19:41:01




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to 2M, 08-22-2005 21:19:04  
2M,

Although adding a capacitor to a battery charger will significantly reduce hum, you'll get nowhere near as clean of an output as you will with a linear regulator.

Also, bigger is not necessarily better. The bigger the capacitor, the less the ripple it's true. However, when the ripple is small the capacitor has to charge at the peak of the input sine wave, which results in higher peak current through the transformer and rectifier. At some point you'll hit the current limit on the charger and a bigger capacitor won't help. Probably a 1000 MFD capacitor is good enough. That's why power supplies with big filter capacitors also have massive transformers and hefty rectifiers.

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Chuck UR

08-22-2005 04:57:08




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
Wow I really got something going !!!

I'm looking at 12v (13.8v) power supplies on Ebay - Consumer Electronics> Radios: CB, Ham & Shortwave> Ham Radio> Accessories> Power Supply. It looks like I can get one for about $25. plus shipping.

I guess I want one that is filtered ???
I'll probably want to add an amp/equilizer so I'm thinking 20A ???

My friend owns a car stereo store so used radio is $0.

Car type speakers are cheap. I already have some.

Plastic - Walmart - boom boxes don't last on a construction site.

DeWalt/Milwaukee boxes have poor sound / no volume / poor reception. 3A-5A.

I'm thinking for < $100. I can build a box with decent sound, multiple speakers and good volume that will last.

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mlm

08-22-2005 20:45:42




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-22-2005 04:57:08  
It is safe to assume all CB supplies are regulated and filtered. Car radios are designed to deal with some difficult reception problems. Should work good. It gives a person a since of pride to use a product that he master minded and put together insead of buying.



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MarkB_MI

08-22-2005 18:49:14




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-22-2005 04:57:08  
I think 20 amps is overkill. That should be sufficient for a 100 watt per channel booster amp. The neighbors might not care to hear your Lawrence Welk CDs at 120 db.

Any linear regulated power supply will have some degree of filtering, so claims that a given power supply is "filtered" are meaningless. The only way you could compare two power supplies would be to dissassemble them and look at their components. So go for the cheapest one that meets your specs (assume that the specs are exaggerated at least 100 percent).

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farmweld

08-22-2005 06:24:18




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-22-2005 04:57:08  
milwaukee has great reception and great sound. i dont think i would trade mine for the world. i got it around X-mas time, and use it a bunch during remodel, roofing, an electrical work both personally and with habitat for humanity. love it, an its nice to have a radio that runs off battiries i alredady have for my milwaukee cordless set.
farmweld



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MarkB_MI

08-22-2005 04:00:28




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
To get good results without a lot of hum, you will need clean 14v dc power. You can't get this from either a battery charger (by itself) or from a switching power supply out of a computer.

There are two reasonably cheap ways to get clean dc power:

1. Buy a regulated (linear) DC power supply. This is by far the easiest and simplest way to go. Radio Shack lists a 3 amp 14 power supply for 42 bucks. (Link below.) You might find one cheaper elsewhere. This power supply should be more than adequate for a standard car radio, but it might not be big enough if you intend to put in a booster amp. Either go with a bigger supply, or go to option #2.

2. Hook a small battery charger (2 amp should be plenty) to a small battery, say a lawn tractor battery. This should give you plenty of reserve for a booster amp, but you have the big disadvantage of lugging around a lead acid battery that might spill or explode.

You might ask "why can I get more power out of a 2 amp charger than a 3 amp power supply?" The answer is that your amplifier power demand has a lot of spikes, the battery will supply power for those spikes that a solid-state power supply cannot.

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T_Bone

08-21-2005 23:14:08




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
Hi Chuck,

I would think a lawn & garden battery to run the radio with a 2amp trickle charger to recharge the battery is the way I would go. About 3 to 4hrs of radio playing before a car battery will bite the dust and not start the engine.

An expensive radio for what a boom box would cost new.

You also might want to check out a book at the library on basic electricity. A good time to learn.

T_Bone

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jeffcat

08-21-2005 20:54:15




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
Woa there, take a second. I have built several into houses and the Brother inlaws dental office. Used to repair radios many years ago. You are looking into some expense but the results are beyond outer space if you do a good job.
I used Delco CD units that go for around $200 plus---if you know the junkyard owner! use one of those jellpack batterys from Interstate or a couple of ones for Emergency fire lite systems. Use the Wall Mart Eveready About $28.00 Self monitor type charger. These don"t cook the battery and a big filter cap from an old computer power supply will take out any hum. In the back of a lot of older GM cars there are wonderful 6X9 20oz speakers. In houses I use Altec 883 8inch Studio speakers. They go for almost $150.00 each but good golly they sound SO GOOD! Many years ago I built just what you are thinking of and it weighed a TON! It would BLAST any camp site or back yard you would want to fill! A few years ago the EX left it out in the yard in a BIGGGGG rain storm. I still would like to Blank Blank Blank her in the head! If you build this in a wood box use 1/2 inch plywood and glue it good. Also tip the speakers outwards to increase the stereo effect. PS keep the power supply as far from the back of a speaker as you can. The magnet will interact with the field and things will heat up. It is cheaper to go to Best Buy and pickup a good boom box. The systems I have put in houses start at over$500.oo but-- They DO have the POWER and the SOUND! Car radios are the most sensetive front ends you can get for AM and FM cause they need to work in a car. Have fun and good luck but I would go with a good boom box. Jeffcat

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buickanddeere

08-21-2005 19:59:49




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  Transformers rectifier ??? Switching Power Suppl in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
A "Wall Wart" power supply from any computer store.



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DL

08-21-2005 17:07:40




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
smallest wally-world battery charger U can find???
Regards, DL



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dr.sportster

08-21-2005 12:00:02




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
The old slot car transformer works perfect for this.Should be found at a garage or yard sale for best price.But,have you seen the Milwaukee or Dewalt for around 100 bucks they are built tough for jobsites.Ive been buying 6 D cells for years for the same radio,not the cheapest way.Also there are no good radio stations if all you like is blues anyhow.Oh well.



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Slowpoke

08-21-2005 10:30:11




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
I don't think it's worth the cost to get the DC you need. Radio Shack was selling the power supplies in 2002 for $100-$120 + tax. Gota be more now. For that money or less, you can buy a boom box that uses batteries and either plugs directly into AC or uses a small wall transformer. You'll get AM, FM, a CD player and maybe more. Check pawn shops, flea markets, yard sales or ebay for used items.

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Not much help, but

08-21-2005 10:40:06




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Slowpoke, 08-21-2005 10:30:11  
I just checked and there's a Milwaukee job boom box on ebay now. AC and DC powered. (Milwaukee battery.) Bid is at $51. Don't forget about shipping if bidding on ebay.



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mlm

08-21-2005 09:01:39




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
a battery charger at about 10 amp would run it but there will be a lot of hum in the sound. a battery charger has transformer and diodes but no filter or regulator. An old CB radio power supply should work good.



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mlm

08-21-2005 09:06:25




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to mlm, 08-21-2005 09:01:39  
i should add this: if you want somthing like 200watt output,a supply closer to 20 amps will be needed.



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Jimmy King

08-21-2005 08:29:34




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
I got one years ago at Altel so I could use my Bag Phone in the house. I still use it for my Roady 2 XM radio, when I bring it in.



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MAC,IL

08-21-2005 07:40:46




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
You can get one at the shack, either fixed or regulated. I built one of those years ago and I still use it in my shop. Didnt save any money, but it was just an electrical project.



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tech4

08-21-2005 05:50:42




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
A transformer changes AC to AC A step down would for instance change 120 AC to 12 volts AC. To get DC will require rectifiers and filters and best a voltage regulator. You need a power supply not just a transformer. Radio Shack does have 12 volt power supplies but I am not sure about the current cost.



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txgrn

08-21-2005 07:17:56




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to tech4, 08-21-2005 05:50:42  
A regular car radio used to put out 5 watts of audio power. Given losses you would need a 12v dc power supply supplying somewhere around 10 watts. Probably get one from the shack for $20.


For boom boom boxes you are wanting to produce a lot of racket which would require a lot more than 10 watts.....probably 200ish watts if my memory is correct.

So expect to pay a couple hundred for it. Too much power supply is ok.....like it is capable of putting out 200w and you only use 100. Too little (ps capacity) and you will burn it up or continuously blow the line fuses.

Mark

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Bret4207

08-21-2005 05:33:31




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 Re: Transformers ??? in reply to Chuck UR, 08-21-2005 05:29:21  
Radio Shack has them.



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