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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Electric motor question again (pic)

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Jay87T

08-15-2005 14:52:52




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Ok so, my question is, do electric motors have torque factors? here is a picture of the motor I just put on now on my air compressor, this motor weighs about 300lbs 14 inches in diameter, rated at 2hp at 12 amps, I look at motors at the surplus center and their motors weigh in at 40lbs 5hp @ 19 amps, are these little motors are strong as this horse? I mean are there torque factors involed in a motor? its already geared down with a small pully and is not spinning my compressor very fast, and its drawing 13 amps according to my ammeter.
Jay.

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Jay87T

08-16-2005 13:41:09




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to Jay87T, 08-15-2005 14:52:52  
another thing I forgot to ask, do these old motors have some sort of overload protection? if I have it working to much will it just shut down? or just burn out? is there something I can add to protect it?
Jay



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Kevin Bismark

08-18-2005 18:18:09




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to Jay87T, 08-16-2005 13:41:09  
If the motor has built in thermal protection it will say so on the motor id tag, if it doesn"t pick up a "magnetic starter" or as we call it a motor starter, it"s probably a single phase motor so you only need one with a 2 pole contactor, look on the tag on the motor for the full load amps and size the heaters in the motor starter based on that, get one with a 240 volt coil and you won"t have to change much, I assume you have the motor wired for 240 volts..

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dr.sportster

08-16-2005 13:03:06




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to Jay87T, 08-15-2005 14:52:52  
I know newer motors are maybe more efficient but I have taken original motors to be rebuilt at a motor shop with good results and cost.Could a rebuild of the original be possible?Always like to see pictures of your compressor.You did a nice job on it.



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MAC,IL

08-16-2005 14:03:26




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to dr.sportster, 08-16-2005 13:03:06  
Reminds me of a place I worked many years ago. All we had was the old heavy Baldor motors. But some had been rebuilt a few times. Back then a good motor could be rewound and serviced for a lot less than a new one.



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big jt

08-16-2005 08:50:18




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to Jay87T, 08-15-2005 14:52:52  
Personally I wouldn't use either one of those motors on a Air Compresser. One only has a 5/8 shaft and the other has a 7/8 shaft. Not real good to try to tighten a belt against.

They both have a 1.0 service factor which isn't real good for a Air compresser. I think should be 1.15 or 1.25. I am sure some one who knows more in this area than I will weigh in.

The motors you had listed I would bet were for competition priced crackerbox air compressers. Would bet the 5/8 shaft one was for a oiless direct drive unit.

If you need a motor for your compresser I would suggest looking at the link I have included. I know it is more money than you were thinking but in the long haul will be worth it. I have had good luck with most of the stuff I got at Burden's Surplus Center.

The weight difference is due to the speed of the motor and that your old one has a cast iron frame instead of steel. Remember to get 5 hp at 3600 takes half the torque than at 1800.

Clear as mud ain't it!!!

jt

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TomHath

08-15-2005 18:21:50




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to Jay87T, 08-15-2005 14:52:52  
I'd take any of the manufacturer's HP ratings with a grain of salt. Especially one that weighs less, draws less current, and claims just as much horespower.



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Bus Driver

08-15-2005 16:45:00




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to Jay87T, 08-15-2005 14:52:52  
Look at the Frame number on the motor. The new lighter ones probably are 56 Frame. The one you have might be 185T, for example. Lots of the weight is in the housing of the motor.



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Dick2

08-15-2005 15:54:45




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to Jay87T, 08-15-2005 14:52:52  
Yes, electric motors have torque factors - within limits. As the load on an electric motor increases, you can measure the amperage increase. Old motors have more and heavier windings, so the amperage draw is not as large on the newer motors with fewer and lighter windings. You need to size breakers/fuses closer to rated amperage draw on newer motors to prevent them from burning out.

Newer motors develop their power by drawing more amps through the lighter windings; therefore, they use more electrical energy. There are trade-offs; just don't expect the new motors to last as long as the old, heavier ones do.

Being able to repair electric motors, I prefer to use old motors that use less energy. My $0.02.

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buickanddeere

08-15-2005 20:40:33




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to Dick2, 08-15-2005 15:54:45  
The new high efficiency motors put more power out the shaft per KW input that the old motors. Less iron and windage lossws for just two. The power factor at max rated load is closer to unity than the old motors as well. As for HP. 5 HP at 1740 rpm is 5 HP at 1740 rpm not matter what motor. Torque rise when overloaded is another whole kettle of fish. Then there is starting torque differences. It's pretty easy to start comparing apples to oranges on this topic.

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old

08-15-2005 15:11:20




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to Jay87T, 08-15-2005 14:52:52  
Old motors where a lot bigger then the new ones and didn't have the HP of the new ones. So yes a new 5 hp even if smaller will do more then that big one



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Jay87T

08-15-2005 15:31:24




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to old, 08-15-2005 15:11:20  
Can someone tell me the difference betweek these two motors besides the 100.00 price gap.

Link

compared to this one for 90.00

Link

Jay



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XXRogerXXX

08-15-2005 21:30:12




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to Jay87T, 08-15-2005 15:31:24  
Stay away from those 3450 rpm motors. The feet break off them when subjected to vibration and belt tension after a couple of years. You need something with an 1 1/8" shaft and 1725-1750 rpm.

Where's the old Brunner?



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buickanddeere

08-16-2005 07:19:46




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to XXRogerXXX, 08-15-2005 21:30:12  
3450rpm is fine IF properly used to like any other motor. The smaller dia motor pulley can get you into belt slippage, over tightening or early belt failures if improperly sized. A three phase motor runs smoother than a single phase and a four or more pole motor "smoother" than a two pole. A two pole tends to use less KW per HP out than a four pole. Just figure out your cfm, pressure and calculate HP. Then get a Compressor motor if there is no unloader valve. Your get what you pay for in electric motors.

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Jay87T

08-16-2005 04:20:25




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to XXRogerXXX, 08-15-2005 21:30:12  
well I messured the bore of the pistons in the brunner, one is 3.5 inches, the big one and the other is just under 2 inches which is weird cause the head is HUGE but its all cast like the piston walls are thick, Im looking for something with abit more cfm for my shop garage, I plan to make another compressor with the brunner head though.



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Jay87T

08-16-2005 04:27:27




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to Jay87T, 08-16-2005 04:20:25  
PS. any info on this pump roger?
has 4 pistons each at 2.5 inches.
I dont know who made this head no matter how hard I look. stamped in the block is

S 200
SR 4229



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XXXRogerXXX

08-16-2005 14:23:23




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to Jay87T, 08-16-2005 04:27:27  
All I can tell is that it's an old refrigerant compressor from what I see. Maybe a York??



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Jay87T

08-16-2005 14:29:51




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to XXXRogerXXX, 08-16-2005 14:23:23  
part # on the heads is C 3-101 if thats any help.



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old

08-15-2005 15:40:15




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 Re: Electric motor question again (pic) in reply to Jay87T, 08-15-2005 15:31:24  
Not sure about those motor can't get to site. What you do need to look for is compressor duty type motors. Those motor will start with a load and a lot of other motors will not



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