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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

'Nother barn electrical question

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Tom in TN

08-09-2005 21:34:37




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Hey All,

I want tap into my 200 amp service in my house and install a 100 amp sub-panel in my tobacco barn. The tobacco barn is not water proof since the boards on the side of the barn are purposely spaced apart to allow air to blow through the barn.

Do I need to put my sub-panel inside some kind of water proof box? Is there a waterproof sub-panel that I should buy?

What do you think?

Thanks,

Tom in TN

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MarkB_MI

08-10-2005 20:07:08




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 Re: 'Nother barn electrical question in reply to Tom in TN, 08-09-2005 21:34:37  
Your best route to go, I think, is to double-tap your meter. There's no reason to go into the house for power; you're just adding voltage drop. If you double-tap the meter, you will need a service disconnect for the barn AT THE METER. Run a trench to the barn and use 2 gauge (aluminum) or larger "USE" (Underground Service Equipment) wire. Run four conductors for a separate ground and neutral.

At the barn, a weatherproof panel is a good idea. The downside is that the weatherproof boxes don't seem to have a lot of slots. You'll be surprised how many slots you'll need: welder takes two, one GFCI for the 120 outlets, one for lights. Add a compressor and you're up to six slots. Anyway, if you go for a non-weatherproof panel, you'll be a lot less likely to run out of circuits. Enclose the box with plywood and you should be good to go.

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davisfarms

08-10-2005 18:59:52




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 Re: 'Nother barn electrical question in reply to Tom in TN, 08-09-2005 21:34:37  
how far from the houde you need to think about voltage drop .You will have to be at least 24inches under ground it should be in conduit



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Tom in TN

08-10-2005 18:14:13




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 Re: 'Nother barn electrical question in reply to Tom in TN, 08-09-2005 21:34:37  
All,

Thanks for all of the ideas. I hope to proceed with this project within the next couple of months. I have three options that I'm considering.

1. Have the electric company drop the 100 amp service into the barn from the pole.

2. Install a 100 amp breaker in my distribution panel in my house and run it underground to the barn using UF wire. It sounds like I can get a watertight panel for use in the barn. This would be a 220 volt circuit

3. Install a 60 amp breaker in my distribution panel in my house and run it underground to the barn using UF wire. I guess I'd make this a 220 volt circuit.

I really only want lights and outlets for hand tools in the barn at this time. but I'm sure it would be smarter to plan for a larger load in the future. I think the only really big demand I'd have would be if I bought a stick welder.

I will permit this project, whatever I do.

In any event, thanks for all of the responses.

Tom in TN

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S.jewell(630crazy)

08-10-2005 12:47:26




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 Re: 'Nother barn electrical question in reply to Tom in TN, 08-09-2005 21:34:37  
You say you are going to tap into your existing 200 amp service in your home? How are you going to do that? Does the service entrance in your home have lugs that you can split 100 amps off of? Best thing to do is split off the meter, I put in a double lug meter(the electric company gave me one for free)...two wires to the house and two to the barn. You didn't say if you needed 220 or not but if you are going to the trouble to put 100amps in I would guess you might as well.

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huntingreen

08-10-2005 10:29:52




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 Re: 'Nother barn electrical question in reply to Tom in TN, 08-09-2005 21:34:37  
I would cover the joints between the boards where I was going to install the new panel and use a standard panel. Mount it on a piece of plywood. What are you going to be doing in a tobacco barn to need 100 amps of service. At the very least use UF cable for your wiring and do put all the receptacles for general use on GFCI circuits. Are you going to install lights? Do you still use the barn for tobacco. Get some haymole type lights that will have glass covers. Be sure and install a proper ground rod. Is there water in the barn. If there is any metal piping it will have to be bonded to the panel. my 2 cents worth.

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dr.sportster

08-10-2005 12:56:46




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 Re: 'Nother barn electrical question in reply to huntingreen, 08-10-2005 10:29:52  
Uf wire run above ground may be a code violation.I have failed for this.After all its underground feeder not romex.Only weatherproof panel and covers for the GFIs are needed here.



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David - OR

08-13-2005 08:11:16




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 Re: 'Nother barn electrical question in reply to dr.sportster, 08-10-2005 12:56:46  
At least per the 2002 National Electrical Code, UF wire is allowed anywhere NM cable (Romex) is. See NEC 340.10(4) You must follow the ampacity and fastening requirements (article 334) for Romex.

Use of UF instead of NM is a good idea for any location subject to moisture, either from blowing rain or animals. The molded insulation does make it more of a pain to work with than Romex, but it is much more weather tolerant.

On the other hand, type USE or SE cable is not allowed to be used for branch circuits if it has an exposed grounded conductor.

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dr.sportster

08-14-2005 11:44:29




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 Re: 'Nother barn electrical question in reply to David - OR, 08-13-2005 08:11:16  
You are 100% correct.My bad.Although this did fail once I did not have the code article to argue.The funny thing is most of the inspectors I used to deal with are in jail from an FBI bribery sting operation.They never got a penny out of me.I just changed what they wanted.



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Joe in MN

08-10-2005 04:41:15




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 Re: 'Nother barn electrical question in reply to Tom in TN, 08-09-2005 21:34:37  
Most States will want to inspect the installation during and after the installation, home owners are welcome to do the work, as long as they do ever thing by the book, I recomend you call the Electrical Inspector in your area, any electrician or City & Country Office will have his phone number, and then ask him for his advise. Be Safe or Be Sorry, Good Luck,



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LouNY

08-10-2005 04:13:43




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 Re: 'Nother barn electrical question in reply to Tom in TN, 08-09-2005 21:34:37  
raintite box and be sure to do all your wire entries from the bottom of the box, side entries will get some moisture into a box, top entries will always end up with moisture allowed into a panel



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buickanddeere

08-09-2005 22:06:16




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 Re: 'Nother barn electrical question in reply to Tom in TN, 08-09-2005 21:34:37  
How far away and are you planning on using a 100amp breaker in the 200A panel to supply the the tobbaccy panel? What size wire and where/how is it being run? Companies like Reliance Controls make breaker panels for outside use.



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Hal/WA

08-09-2005 21:57:19




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 Re: 'Nother barn electrical question in reply to Tom in TN, 08-09-2005 21:34:37  
I don't know what the rules say, but I do know that electricity and water don't mix well. I would put the electrical box in an enclosure to prevent wind driven rain from ever getting it wet. That could be something as simple as putting the box up high so the roof would protect it and having exterior plywood behind the box. Good luck!



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martinb

08-10-2005 08:51:16




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 Re: 'Nother barn electrical question in reply to Hal/WA, 08-09-2005 21:57:19  
You need a raintight sub panel, as already mentioned, a minimum of 2 gauge copper wire for 100 amps. I personally would put a GFI plug in any circuit I broke off the sub panel. Use raintight enclosures for plugs and switches and run wire inside conduit and you don't even need to have it inside the barn (pools are wired this way). A good electrial supply house, ie not one of the chains will almost certainly have people who can steer you in the right direction.

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