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Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private

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Bernoulli

08-06-2005 17:34:04

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I just bought an acetylene welding outfit. If the tanks are leased it was an okay price. If they are private it was a good price. How do I tell the difference? I'm in Portland, OR. Looking through the archives, it's apparent that the laws vary from state to state.
Thanks.

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Slowpoke

08-13-2005 14:23:27

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Bernoulli, 08-06-2005 17:34:04

The collar on my medium mig tank is embossed "Customer owned". So far I've refilled it. Don't remember how I obtained it.
Time will come when I need to have it tested at my expense. I'll probably exchange it before that. Another large tank was purchased for $15 at a yard sale. I took a gamble. It had no collar markings but was for some odd gas. The supplier allowed me $100 toward the purchase of a private mig tank of the same size. Better than Las Vegas.
Filled with argon/co2, I had to throw in $60. But he won't fill other current brands, only his own.

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Don-Wi

08-10-2005 20:54:58

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Bernoulli, 08-06-2005 17:34:04

We bought our tanks from Prax Air. When we need a refill, they exchange them. They don't care what's on the collar, they'll take anything. We've got a wire feed welder and oxy/acetylene torch. Not too worried about the tanks being too old and not certified.
Donovan from Wisconsin

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Nolan

08-09-2005 03:12:17

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Bernoulli, 08-06-2005 17:34:04

To make ownership more murky, there are ways to legally purchase a leased tank. For example, condemnation type laws. My tanks were legally purchased from a storage locker auction. Hence, they are legally mine.

That and a buck will buy you a cup of coffee, because no one will refill them, believing they still actually belong to Roberts Oxygen.

You can purchase new blank collars for the tanks, which makes life a lot easier. But that takes money and effort. At which point you start to wonder if it's worthwhile to own your own tank.

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Old Peddler

08-09-2005 03:59:35

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Nolan, 08-09-2005 03:12:17

From my experiences, your best bet if you want to own your own set of oxy acetylene cylinders are the 80cf oxy and 75cf acetylene. But before you buy go talk to the people at the place you want to get them refilled. Ask about the prices on their same size cylinders and policy regarding hydro tests on out of date cylinders. There may be a policy that they will not charge you for testing a cylinder that they sell. It does not hurt to ask while you are there. There is a little more to it than what I have time to say right now. I will try to add more of my experiences later.

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Fred Martin

08-08-2005 09:31:21

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Bernoulli, 08-06-2005 17:34:04

Did you ever wonder how they test a oxygen tank? Well, according to how it was explained to me...the cylinder is put inside a larger tank, sealed and has a fitting to pressurize the tank to be tested. The holding tank is filled with water and theres a water column (sight guage) on the outside. If the pressured oxygen tank expands as about 1 1/2 times normal pressure is applied...the water column in the sight guage rises. Of course the guage is calibrated and if the column of water goes past a set limit...the tank is considered beyond it"s usefull life. Can anyone add to this? Fred OH

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Old Peddler

08-08-2005 16:44:16

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Fred Martin, 08-08-2005 09:31:21

As I understand it, the cylinder to be tested is filled with water first. Then allowed to sit for a period of time, not sure of how long, maybe twelve hours or so. That allows all air bubbles in the water to rise to the surface.

Then the cylinder is put inside a larger water tank and pressure is applied to the water inside the cylinder. Supposedly, it dosen't take much volume of water to raise the pressure to testing point.

The reasoning there is that if a cylinder fails the test and ruptures inside the water tank, only a small amount of water will be released.

You can imagine what would happen if the cylinder were filled with air at 3,000psi and failed/ruptured. I have seen the side of a commercial building blown completely out from a ruptured oxygen cylinder. And it only had 2,000psi in it.

The rest of it I think you are pretty close. The cylinder is supposedly allowed to expand and contract within certain limits that are determined by the sight gauge. If the cylinder does not meet the limits set for it, it is condemed and is only good for scrap.

That is only my understanding as I am not a certified tester nor do I play one on teevee. All manufacture's rules and federal regulations apply. Your mileage may vary in different situations.

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Fred Martin

08-08-2005 17:59:18

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Old Peddler, 08-08-2005 16:44:16

Sounds good to me OP...in the navy machine shops after we overhauled valves, (which some of them were high pressure steam) and had to hold quite a bit of pressure were tested with water...same as you described for the oxygen cylinders. Theres been some stories on this board about cylinders getting the valve broken off and did terrible damage. Some dudes even had time on their hands to knock the valves off and see if the tank would cross some river near where they worked. I"d like to have seen it if their boss caught them doing it. Whew! Fred OH

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Old Peddler

08-08-2005 20:21:51

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Fred Martin, 08-08-2005 17:59:18

Thanks!

Some people do some dumb things. It is amazing that they do not cause injury to themselves or someone just walking by.

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Davis In SC

08-08-2005 18:36:19

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Fred Martin, 08-08-2005 17:59:18

That would be a sight to see.... At a safe distance..

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MarkB_MI

08-07-2005 18:38:29

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Bernoulli, 08-06-2005 17:34:04

Seems like it varies a lot by locale. Here in SE Michigan, the smaller tanks are always sold, not leased. The strange thing is that none of the gas suppliers seem to care where a tank comes from. I have a set of tanks I purchased from Aga (now Linde). When I bring them in they swap them out no questions asked. One time they gave me a tank that was clearly marked with the name of a competitor. When I brought it back for a refill, they swapped it with another competitor's tank!

I think it's a matter of competition. If a supplier has little or no competition, he'll make you lease your tanks from him. On the other hand, if there's a lot of competition, the suppliers are happy to have your business and couldn't care less where you acquired your tanks.

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rockyhawaii

08-07-2005 15:36:40

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Bernoulli, 08-06-2005 17:34:04

I had to buy my first set of tanks, and thereafter exchanging them is no problem. But bring in a set that turns up stolen, and the cops will be there that same day. Happened to my buddy, but I had warned the knucklehead befroehand. The gas company confisgates the tanks also, and puts them back into service.

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Old Peddler

08-07-2005 12:06:59

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Bernoulli, 08-06-2005 17:34:04

Don't know if this will help or not but here goes. You need the original invoice when the cylinders were sold or a copy of it to prove the cylinders were not stolen. You can also find out what company filled the cylinders last by the contents sticker on the cylinders. Call them or go by and talk to a salesperson there about refilling the cylinders. Take your original sold invoice or copy with you when you go see them. More than likely they will need a copy of it for their files before they will refill the cylinders. Let us know what you find out.

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thejdman01

08-07-2005 10:38:03

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Bernoulli, 08-06-2005 17:34:04

i have had problems getting private tanks filled. only 2 major suppliers around here and if i get a private tank filled they have to pressure check it etc before filling it. pressure checking costs much more money. i quit messing with it. also rockford industrial welding suplly wanted to see the title for the tanks before filling them and i had never had the title for the tanks as i bought them off of farm auction. private tanks were not good experiences.

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kporter

08-07-2005 07:45:05

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Bernoulli, 08-06-2005 17:34:04

In Oregon, tanks are considered private if they don"t have a company name or ID# engraved on the top of the bottle AND the top of they bottle (from the threaded part to the curve) must be painted yellow. BOTH of these together signify a private bottle. I have heard (from a friend, of course) that you can docter up a bottle with some emery cloth, epoxy, and yellow paint. Also, if they are leased bottles, only the company that leased them will fill/exchange them. Even if they are way old.

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Richard H.

08-07-2005 05:31:57

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Bernoulli, 08-06-2005 17:34:04

Here in Ind. it is like T_bone say"s but only on the larger bottles. I get mine from a machine shop. The owner told me he was tired of the delivery cost of 4 or 5 bottles at a time plus running out and created an area to store many bottles. So check the yellow pages and you will probably find your answers plus bottles.

And around here TSC has an exchange program. Must be really good stuff for the money they want! Richard

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T_Bone

08-07-2005 03:31:14

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Bernoulli, 08-06-2005 17:34:04

Hi Bernoulli,

I'm not positive but going by what my gas supplier taught me on my last exchange, if the cylinder has an embossed company name just below the valve on the neck, then it's a commericaly owned cylinder and can only be refilled by the company owning the cylinder.

If no embossed company name, then it's a privately owned cylinder and can be refilled by any gas supplier.

T_Bone

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Redmud

08-07-2005 02:55:54

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Bernoulli, 08-06-2005 17:34:04

If you bought this rig, why do you not know about the tanks? maybe the guy that sold you the rig didn't know if the tanks were his or not? Seems to me something ain't on the up and up here.

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Bernoulli

08-07-2005 07:41:40

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Redmud, 08-07-2005 02:55:54

I bought the outfit from the wife. It was a divorce/distress sale and she has no idea. I don't have a problem with that. I would like to know before I take the tanks in to refill them what to expect.

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lucasss

08-06-2005 18:13:59

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Bernoulli, 08-06-2005 17:34:04

we bought our tanks from louisville welding. they swap us empty for full when empty.lucas

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Davis In SC

08-06-2005 17:56:35

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Bernoulli, 08-06-2005 17:34:04

I bought a new torch outfit at the first of the year.The lease on the tanks was 150.00/each...That lets me swap out empty bottle for full... I questioned the manager, & he promised me that I would not be penalized if I wound up holding a Cylinder that went out of date on testing.I have heard stories where buyer got charged for that, but he assured me it not happen...

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Chester

08-07-2005 07:47:26

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Re: Acetylene/Oxygen tank set. Leased or Private in reply to Davis In SC, 08-06-2005 17:56:35

In my province (Ontario) DIYers can only own a "B" Acetylene and 80 Cu. Ft. Oxygen tanks. Any other size is either leased (or stolen). The supplier takes care of the "B" tank maintenance but the owner maintains the Oxy tank (tested every ten years). Have owned mine since 1981, so am well ahead in that game. Most good gas suppliers around here look out for the little guy and give you a "newer" tank than the one brought in. So have only paid that re-testing fee once..... around $100 Cdn. You can see my small set-up here:

Link

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