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OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive

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Brent in IA

08-05-2005 10:22:39




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I finally broke down and had a new pad (22 ft x 22 ft x 6 in) poured in front of the garage (so my wife would stop harassing me about it...). The contractor came back the next day and cut crack-control grooves in it about 2 inches deep leaving me with 4 quarters that are each 11 ft x 11 ft. My question is: Won"t these fill with water and do the freeze/thaw thing eventually breaking up my new drive? After the concrete cures should I fill these with caulk or something?

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thejdman01

08-07-2005 10:44:51




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 Re: OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive in reply to Brent in IA, 08-05-2005 10:22:39  
dont fill them in with caulk . esp if water is allowed to seep in there and cant get out it will break the concrete if the crack is left open water will go to path of least resistance, up instead of being trapped. theoretically caulk is easier to push then concrete so even trapped water should compress the caulk not break concrete but not always the case



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richlizzy

08-05-2005 15:53:39




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 Re: OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive in reply to Brent in IA, 08-05-2005 10:22:39  
I have poured thousands of yards of concrete over the years as a contractor and have only saw cut and not caulked the cuts. Any water that freezes in the crack will push up to the surface and not cause a problem. If you caulk the joint and water seeps in and gets trapped, when it freezes it will cause problems. I personally have sidewalks, driveways, and garage floors on four different houses that have been saw cut and I have no problems. Some are over eighteen years old with no problems. I live in Central Illinois so yes we get snow and ice.

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fepo

08-08-2005 11:52:16




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 Re: OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive in reply to richlizzy, 08-05-2005 15:53:39  
what happens when the saw cut does develop a crack in it ? where does the water go ?



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Dave_Id

08-05-2005 15:00:13




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 Re: OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive in reply to Brent in IA, 08-05-2005 10:22:39  
When I had a large slab poured, 54x54, my contractor installed 'zip strips" every 12 ft square to control the cracking. They are about the thickness of a dime, and are made, I think, of plastic. Anyway, they controled the cracking perfectly without leaving the nasty cut groove. It's too late now for you, but something to consider the rest of the readers when having a slab poured.



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Charles (in GA)

08-06-2005 06:27:22




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 Re: OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive in reply to Dave_Id, 08-05-2005 15:00:13  
When I did my 60x60 metal building I told the contractor I did not want to saw the slab, usually the saw goes astray and looks terrible and then the ants tend to run in the cracks and make a mess, so I had him key the slab with metal keyways. Sadly I relied on the knowledge (or lack of it) to do this. He set the keys to form 20x30 areas and that is too large, I later found industry information about keying that said to not go over 20x20. I also found out about the Zip strips you mention, that fit on the top of the keys, when done you pull them out and you get a real neat groove to fill in with an crack filler (there are many different ones made just for doing this, I found).

Now I have chipping and flaking along the joints, and not a neat gap to fill. However, five years into it and I have only a couple of fine hairline cracks elsewhere in the slab. A neighbor of mine has alot of buckling and shifting of his slab at joints, so the keys do help prevent that.

Charles

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MAC,IL

08-05-2005 12:55:21




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 Re: OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive in reply to Brent in IA, 08-05-2005 10:22:39  
I"m with sportster. Check and see if they are going to do it. Maybe ask them whats the best to use. Otherwise I would think a good grey colored butyl caulk would be fine. After it sets up there is still plenty of flex in it.



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dr.sportster

08-05-2005 11:52:22




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 Re: OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive in reply to Brent in IA, 08-05-2005 10:22:39  
Maybe the contractor is coming back to do that also?



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Davis In SC

08-05-2005 11:21:03




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 Re: OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive in reply to Brent in IA, 08-05-2005 10:22:39  
Concrete is going to crack, as it cures. So it is much better to cut the grooves, so the stress can relieve there... It sure beats having jagged cracks all over the surface. I agree on filling them..... .



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fepo

08-05-2005 11:19:09




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 Re: OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive in reply to Brent in IA, 08-05-2005 10:22:39  
as MACO100 says, foam and fill with self levelling caulk. The caulking will allow movement and keep the seal between slabs, so yes do the caulking job, and there will still be expansion/contraction with the caulking in place.



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maco100

08-05-2005 10:37:26




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 Re: OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive in reply to Brent in IA, 08-05-2005 10:22:39  
First blow out saw cut with air compressor. Then take foam (backer rod) comes in bulk lengths and tuck into saw cut. Then apply self leveling caulk on top. (Sonneborm, SL1 is the best). You will have a excellent looking job, keeps out dirt and easy to keep clean also. These products can be bought at most lumber yards or concrete supply shops.



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Rusty Scupper

08-05-2005 10:33:33




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 Re: OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive in reply to Brent in IA, 08-05-2005 10:22:39  
Those cuts are called expansion cracks. They are done to control cracking in concrete. There is one thing that we know about concrete is that it will crack. You do not want to caulk them.



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Rusty Scupper

08-05-2005 10:33:25




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 Re: OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive in reply to Brent in IA, 08-05-2005 10:22:39  
Those cuts are called expansion cracks. They are done to control cracking in concrete. There is one thing that we know about concrete is that it will crack. You do not want to caulk them.



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Brent in IA

08-05-2005 10:37:27




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 Re: OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive in reply to Rusty Scupper, 08-05-2005 10:33:25  
Yeah, I understand the purpose of them, but won't they also ENCOURAGE cracking (even if controlled)? I was looking at a concrete parking lot the other day and all of their expansion cracks were filled with a grey caulk. Maybe for another purpose?

Thanks



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RustyFarmall

08-05-2005 11:20:16




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 Re: OT - Saw cuts in fresh concrete drive in reply to Brent in IA, 08-05-2005 10:37:27  
Brent, you most definately do want to seal those cracks. I put up a new shop/garage about 5 years ago, had a local contractor with a very good reputation do the concrete floor and approach from the drive. He recommended filling those cuts to prevent water from running into them and then freezing, which could really cause problems. I used the least expensive caulking I could find for inside the building, and a tar like caulking which was rated for such an application outside. After 5 years I have no problems at all.

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