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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating

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Midwest redneck

08-04-2005 16:56:42




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I work for a transducer company in Mich. A Mega-large company has bought the place where I work for $10 million. The deal is as follows: Mega large company buys small company in Mich. and only buys the product and tooling and machines, the building does not go with the sale and all of the employees do not go to Mega large company. All the employees 68 of us, will get asked individually by Mega-large company if we want to relocate to Columbus OH. and loose seniority too. (at least it isnt Mexico). I was asked directly by the production manager of the new owners if I would relocate to Columbus Oh. I told him that I cant because by wife has a good position at her place and makes the same money as me, so it would not make sense to move. I did tell him that I would be willing to contract myself out and drive the 5 hours once per week for 2 days/ week to get stuff setup, machines moved etc. on a 6-12 month contract. I would like to think that I would need 30% above what I make now to do contract work because of no benefits etc. (what do you think of my line of thinking) Severance pay will be 8 weeks of my pay if I stay until the end, but I will start looking for a new position now. Almighty God has always taken care of me and my family but this is awkward, I need your prayers from you fellas. I have had secure employment for 8 years from this place and it will be sad to see the doors close on a profitable business, it doesnt make sense does it, the company makes 8% on sales per year and they are going to move it out of state. Thanks

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Gary in Geneva

08-08-2005 06:09:16




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
I spent a couple of years on the road on a network / email conversion for a large corporation as a contractor. It was a wonderful experience.

You will be paying the employer�s part of your taxes as well as the employee part as well. Your cost of living will be much higher than you expect. I would recommend that you negotiate a Per Deem for food, phone, and incidental expenses, full reimbursement for hotel and travel, with a set number of days away before returning home.

If your contract is month to month, your wages would need to be MUCH (2 � 5 times) higher than for a long term contract of several years.

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bolens

08-07-2005 19:35:14




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
Redneck,

The business you described has been a rough & tumble one for the past 10 years. I've been in it for 25 years and have never seen the buy, sell, etc that we have seen over the past several years. But, the sad fact is that the electrical strain-gage based transducer business has always been cut-throat with slim profit margins all around. If you have a specific skill or knowledge in this business to sell to others, you have something to go on. Might try some of the many test labs in and around that area or even MTS etc. Good Luck.

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dr.sportster

08-07-2005 06:40:17




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
All politics aside there is alot of new job growth right now. Thats what friday nights financial news said.Many delayed construction projects are starting up big.Hang in there you will find something better.Many of the unemployed are getting back to work.Good luck.



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Joe in MN

08-06-2005 11:39:33




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
Boy did you open up a Rat's nest, yup, Our Countrymen Politicians are treating us like rat's ----- now who are you going to vote for, every one of them guys up for vote are in with the Big Money, and us rats get the garbage... I worked for IBM, and they did the same thing, sell "production" out to China and leave us hanging....



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3010 Ken

08-05-2005 08:54:14




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
Morning Midwest;My prayers are with you and your family.God will make things right for you. Kenny



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Easy

08-05-2005 08:07:40




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
Good luck, I have a brother and numerous friends in the same situation. I think the official unemployment numbers are flat out lies. Our prayers go to you. Irv & Joan.



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sawtooth

08-06-2005 12:00:53




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Easy, 08-05-2005 08:07:40  
I think too the unemployment numbers are skewed to say the least. Aren't they only counting the ones actually getting unemployment pay? After that runs out you're automatically employed- or not wanting to work? And, I think a big overlooked sector is the older ones who had to retire earlier than they wanted, and might be working part time for very little pay. I'm in that category. BTW, is being a greeter at Walmart "employed"? (no- I don't do that)

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Davis In SC

08-06-2005 17:49:40




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to sawtooth, 08-06-2005 12:00:53  
Good point... "Underemployment" is a bigger issue. Here there is a lot of talk about creating jobs.... But if a person loses a good-paying job, & takes one flipping burgers, at 1/3 the pay... The statistics do not show that.....



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Ken-in-K

08-05-2005 07:52:08




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
Now will you all heed the message and cast yor vote , The ball is in your court.



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Rauville

08-05-2005 07:51:30




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
It isn't only Big Business that is pushing the mergers and takeovers, but Big Government as well.
South Dakota had a state owned cement plant for 78 years that was created to provide for the needs of local users. Four years ago the state sold the plant to a Mexican firm for 252M. This price included all assets of the plant, including real estate and cash reserves. This was a money making operation that was providing the state with over a million dollars a month in profits.
Just read an announcement that the plant has cut back on filling orders to 65% of the previous years requirements. Not only have we lost the plant, but now we are faced with a product shortfall as well.

Good Luck...Everything will work out for the Best!

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Dick2

08-05-2005 07:24:24




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
I do believe that if we could outsource the jobs of politicians and lawyers, there would be an entirely different attitude about outsourcing and mergers.

We could probably hire illegal immigrants for congress for $10K a year and no benefits. Legal work could be done via the Internet by a lowly paid person in China. Sounds as reasonable to me as the things that are going on today.



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loko17

08-05-2005 05:56:54




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
Sad, but it a "sign of the times". Back in '96, my company went through the same thing sort of. They didn't relocate, just "downsized" and after 26 years, I was one of the "downsizees". For me, it was a blessing. I ended up with a good severance package, medical benefits and drug prescription plan for me and my wife, a pension and a good monthly draw on a nice retirement plan (when I became 59 1/2) that I had contributed to for many years. I was 54 at the time. I took the money and ran. I never looked back and I have "played" on my farm ever since. Not so for some of the younger guys though. As they say, "there ought to be a law". What there really should be a law against is these multi- billion dollar companies that are pulling the promised pensions from retired workers. Every month, I wait for "that shoe to drop". Best of luck in whatever you do!

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RB/CT

08-05-2005 05:47:57




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
Blame the Government for the Society they created with laws. Many have lost their jobs, and will not work again. Many are on Social Security Disability, more than unemployment. There smart, they get a check and medical insurance. The Cronie jobs in State, Local and Federal Government still exist, pay raises coming, more political friends and relatives hired at high pay and benefit packages. People who lived in the 50's, 60's and even 70's, had a normal life. Remember those memories. Good luck with your job search. They have created a have and have not society.

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Davis In SC

08-05-2005 09:05:56




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to RB/CT, 08-05-2005 05:47:57  
RB/CT, there is a growing trend of people getting on disability. I recently read a lengthy article about it. For instance, a guy in his 50's loses a $20.00/hour job,& all he can find now is minimum wage. So he plays up that old back injury, etc. & gets a check for life. It is not right, but people will do what it takes to survive.



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Bob - MI

08-05-2005 05:17:14




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
I can appreciate your dilema. I too have suffered the effects of off-shore production advantage and the wholesale abandonment of the local workers. If you ask the management folks at these big companies that will tell you that they have to do this because the competition is forcing them to be more competitive and they have an obligation to maximize profits on behalf of their shareholders.

I think you are on the right track with the contract approach. I ran an engineering group at a casting plant in Muskegon and we found that contract employees were often a good way to go. A job that we would proably fill with a full-time guy making about $55~$60K annually, we would pay a contractor somewhere around $40~$45/hr. We would also have the advantage of tweaking the hours from week to week if things got on the slow side so our annual costs could be lowered.

While you are on the contractor"s clock, you can do some serious networking. This can take you to the next position and nobody would be surprised if you find another job. Get yourself a headhunter too. They can be working for you while you are running the roads.

Make sure you can cover your expenses while you are traveling. Get some sort of allowance structure set up for meals, hotel, and fuel. Even if they balk at the thought of this beyond your contracted wage rate, it will give you something else to negotiate and offer an opportunity to bump the hourly charge a bit.

It"s a cold world out there and there are many folks in the same slot as you. Those who will survive are the ones who work from the ears up and create their own opportunities.

Best of luck

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dhermesc

08-05-2005 05:14:51




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
Like you said, at least it aint Mexico.

Sister in law worked for Modine Manufacturing for 22 years (they build radiators for heavy equipment), company was bought out on July 22 (Friday). When they arrived for work on July 25, (the next Monday) they were informed all hourly employeees were laid off - immediately - go clean your lockers out. Management gets to stay on for a couple weeks to tear down the equipment so it can be sent to Mexico. Considering the fact that Interstate Bakeries just closed shop a couple months ago the town of 25,000 now has about 800 unemployed hitting the bricks looking for work.

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Bret4207

08-05-2005 04:08:24




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
My thoughts and prayers are with you and all who go through this. I tend to take a skewed view on all this big business stuff. It's history repeating itself, of course. Happened to Britain, to Spain, etc. No one in Gov't really cares, not that they want the jobs lost, it's just not affecting them personally, or more to the point, their paycheck. The only way I see this ending is when energy costs get so high that shipping becomes a major part of pricing. It just won't make sense to ship something for $1.00 that you can only sell for $1.25. Profit margin. Then relativly local industry will have the edge. Don't look to Gov't for a solution because as the saying goes, " The business of Gov't is business". Those evil big corporations are where the $$$$ come from. You know that the strongest, truest, most honest man made that gets his Congressional seat will want to stay there to accomplish all his lofty goals, and his heart may be true. But, in order to stay there he needs money, a whole lotta money. Big business can provide that, and once the first penny is taken it straight down the road to h3ll. The lawyers and lobbyists push and pull and Senator True Heart fails, just as all men fail. Term limits are needed, especially in the Senate. And yes, they need to take it back to what it was intended to be and make them participate is Social Security, pay the same taxes we do, work for a living, yadda, yadda, yadda. But where do we find over 500 True Men to fill Congress, 9 Supreme Court True Men, a whole Presidential Administration full of True Men, and a news media willing to back them and help sell the smaller gov't, more "take care of the US and screw the UN", fix whats broken idea? How many of us will step forward and refuse to buy anything but locally or produced on US soil by US workers items? You can't even tell whats made where anymore. And who here could possibly afford to do this until everybody got on the band wagon and turned it all around? Who will not take Gov't subsidies so that the money could be spent repairing whats broken and not supporting an artificial pricing structure? How many will not buy cheese until the farmer is paid what his milk is really worth,and shut down Kraft/Dairy Lea, etc.? How many will stand up and go to jail because of the lawsuits the lawyers will bring when a grassroots civil disobedience movement trys to swing the Gov't and industry the way it should go?

Nope, this is the fall of the American Empire. We've bought our ticket and like the Romans we have our Circus (entertainment/TV) so get some land, pay it off, grow a garden and try to save some $$$. I don't see it changing.

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Vern-MI

08-05-2005 04:04:24




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
You certainly have my prayers and I wish you well in finding new employment. Depending on your area of expertise you may want to retrain in order to make yourself more marketable.

I guess that I'm surprised that these transducer companies have not been bought out by Asian companies. The transducers are not cheap and most often the transducer has to be ordered before it is manufactured. There are not many shelf items available in this industry and they are VERY expensive.

Would that company in Michigan be either Key or Lebow? Would the company in Ohio be Kulite? Just wondering as I have purchased a lot of torque sensors and pressure transducers. BIG BUCKS!

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Midwest redneck

08-05-2005 04:55:37




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Vern-MI, 08-05-2005 04:04:24  
Yes you are right it is Lebow. the Cadillac of the sensor companies. What company are you with. BTW---Key I think is dead now, has been for 2 years.



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Vern-MI

08-05-2005 13:35:03




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-05-2005 04:55:37  
I worked for Ford and wish you had said "The Lincoln of the sensor companies". We bought a lot of driveshaft torque sensors and load cells for our vehicle test and servo hydraulic test systems. We were also buying up to 40 per test of the miniature pressure transducers which were very delicate and expensive. The Lebow products were always viewed to be the best when it came to load and torque measurement. Dynisco was the best pressure transducer manufacturer and Kulite was steadily improving their products. One of the most important features was how well the transducer was temperature compensated from -40 to 300 degrees Fahrenheit.

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Vern-MI

08-05-2005 13:49:02




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Vern-MI, 08-05-2005 13:35:03  
That new company would be Sensotec.



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Midwest redneck

08-06-2005 01:34:01




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Vern-MI, 08-05-2005 13:49:02  
you are correct.



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Vern-MI

08-06-2005 10:14:37




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-06-2005 01:34:01  
IMHO Sensotec transducers never seemed to be as rugged as Carl Lebowicz transducers. They're probably after the technology.



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Midwest redneck

08-06-2005 13:48:30




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Vern-MI, 08-06-2005 10:14:37  
Yes that is correct too. Sensotec, Honeywell will control the loadcell high end test meausurement end of the scale and Vishay will control the load scale, weighing end of the business. A monopoly somewhat on both ends of the spectrum. Lebow is a great product and some super qualified people build it. An American classic sortof, thank God it isnt going to China or Mexico.



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Vern-MI

08-06-2005 15:58:04




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-06-2005 13:48:30  
I have used a lot of the Micro Measurement (Vishay) uniaxial and biaxial strain gage products as well. They are also tops in the business. Some people can lay gages and some never seem to grasp the techiques. Most product life predictions were verified based on the output from these test gages after the initial design calculations had been made and the prototypes produced. We found quite a few new product fatique life issues with these gages before the products ever hit the market. More of these tasks are being done with computer models these days. Much less time consuming and less expensive I guess.

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MarkB_MI

08-05-2005 03:33:52




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
Don't sell yourself short. 30% above your current salary is way too low. Don't forget that as a contractor, you have to pay self-employment tax (really Social Security), of which your employer currently pays half.

You have knowledge they need. Make them pay what it's worth. Good luck.



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Farmall Teen

08-04-2005 18:46:40




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
Help yourself, u got em



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Coldiron

08-04-2005 18:44:54




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
Sorry to hear about the off loading of your plant but as Mark says it is a sign of the times. Companies come and go but our workforce with experience is getting fragmented by these changes which makes us as a nation that is becoming less competitive to the world market. Being less competitive means more jobs are going foreign or forigners are coming here as contract labor to take positions here. A lot of large companies are doing this type of hiring. My prayers are for you as well as the other workers that have put in your hard work and devotion to an uncaring company that didn`t care to protect it`s employees in the buyout. They, as well as the buyers are to blame for the situation. It was a $$$ thing to their buy out package which they got bonus`s for I would imagine.

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Davis In SC

08-04-2005 18:08:32




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
If you are going to help them set up a new operation, I think you need to double your present salary... After all, you are doing them a favor... In 1990, The Co. I had been with for 10 years announced they were closing. I was promised lots of things, if I would stay & co-ordinate the transition to the home plant. There were hundreds of molds & fixtures, & I was the only one that was familiar with them... I spent 4 months of hard work,finally we were almost finished... & I got a call from the home office to be off the premises by noon that day....So much for all of those promises... Stand your ground... They need you worse than you need them.... On a happier note, It has been my experience, that usually things like what is happening to you turn out for the best.. I bet a year from now, you will be doing well. Best of luck, Davis

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RayP(MI)

08-04-2005 17:46:03




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
Can feel for you - we've lost a number of large employers in this area, including Hitachi magnetics factory, and the Electrolux refrigerator manufacturing, to Mexico. Allegedly the largest refrigerator plant in the world.
Wishing you the best.



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Mark - IN.

08-04-2005 17:42:50




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-04-2005 16:56:42  
Midwest, my thoughts are with you. They truely are. What you're going through seems to be the trend. But, as you said, at least the jobs are staying in the US (not China). I would imagine that will be downsizing to eliminate "like" jobs, always are.

Today I stopped to pickup some cable from another tech I sometimes work with. He's dismantling an almost new $250K telephone system that was just sold to ??? for $45K through liquidation as that company closed it's operations here and moves to AZ with it's new parent company. Is a trend. Buy a company to own a particular product to either bolster stock to the holders, or to deep-6 a compareable better product hampering their product line. Is sad. But there is some light in your tunnel, your partner (wife) if helping in time of need. Some don't have such a partner.

Here's one most aren't thinking about. Most of our foundries and steel mills are gone (overseas). Most items sold in stores are produced in China. Very little is produced in these United States. During WWII for instance, many US companies shut down and re-tooled for the war effort. Right? Ford made jeeps, trucks, airplanes, and you get the idea. Many companies did so. What companies are left here to do that? Anyone expect that if we ever get into another situation like that again that those Chinese government owned companies producing everything we buy, will shut down and re-tool to protect or defend the good ol' USA? Our country is being sold down the drain and liquidated from within, on both side of the aisles and for the most part, John Q-public has no idea or care as he buys that crap from Walmart, Harbor Freight, etc. Asleep at the wheel as our country is being taken apart one worker at a time.

Keep in mind that the keepers of the ink pen always know better than anyone, in their world. Good luck buddy, honestly.

Mark

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Coldiron

08-04-2005 18:25:45




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Mark - IN., 08-04-2005 17:42:50  
Can America Compete? The world is making us pay extra to ship our goods into their countries but we are cut short when we try to put a tax on their goods. Foreigners can buy our land and we can`t buy in their countries, Americans are not getting a fair deal and it is coming from our leaders and has been for a long long time. Fortune magazine just had an article on this very subject. It should be required reading for every politician, educator and manager in the country.
If we were to have another major war we would have to import our military goods from the country we would be fighting. ;-(

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BobR

08-04-2005 19:18:18




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Coldiron, 08-04-2005 18:25:45  
It truely isn't good, It seems most of our goods, even American brands, are made in other countries, What if we had to fight a war on the scale of WWII? Could we supply ourselves? Worrisome stuff. What has big business interest and the politicians done to us???



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BobR

08-04-2005 19:22:50




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to BobR, 08-04-2005 19:18:18  
Pardon the rant, What I read, and what I see worries me, many in your boat, or worse, and you do have my prayers.Bob



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Davis In SC

08-04-2005 21:12:12




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to BobR, 08-04-2005 19:22:50  
Bob, you do not want to hear me start ranting..... Regards, Davis



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BobR

08-05-2005 04:18:20




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Davis In SC, 08-04-2005 21:12:12  
Davis, It looks like we all feel about the same concerning this, I want to ask you and everyone to pray fot our nation, and ask God to intervene before the politicians and big business concerns sell us all down the river to China. (which they seem to have forgotten is still a communist country.) Best regards, Bob



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Larry.E

08-04-2005 19:11:52




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Coldiron, 08-04-2005 18:25:45  
My Co.moved to Mexico cheap basrards are after cheap labor.People in LaJunta CO. Guess who this was.



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weedsabate

08-05-2005 16:03:56




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 Re: OT: Need prayers, my plant is relocating in reply to Larry.E, 08-04-2005 19:11:52  
One newsletter I subscribe to cites that we are going to become a service oriented country instead of manufacturing, as we have sent it all abroad. Just some food for thought. Jerry



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