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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

getting shocked when welding

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diggerdave

07-15-2005 12:02:05




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Hi All- based on this question it will be painfully obvious that I am not a welder by trade or and electrical person. I am however learnig as I go by reading and much practice. Will even be taking a class in the fall..but until then i need something explaind to me in EASY to understand terms.. How can you get shocked using a welder? Obviously I dont want to be, but have had people tell me they have been and cant really explain how it happened. For example I dont understand why you can touch the object being welded with you bare hand while the arc is going and dont get shocked. It that because the current takes the path ofleast resitance to the ground insted of my hand? (I dont weld without gloves but in one instance I did so not thinking and wonder why no shock) What if the ground clip got knocked of in middle of an arc and you were touching the metal in some way??Sorry if this is a stupid question but I like to know the reasons behind things. Like I said I dont wannt to get shocked so I do the normal checks like inspecting the leads each time i use for cracks and wear but look forward to any other info on this. Thanks

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Mattlt

07-19-2005 08:47:59




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
A little off topic, but a friend of mine was recently outfitted with a pacemaker. He was advised by his Dr's to stop welding.



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DaveCA

07-18-2005 20:14:15




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  

Link

Link

"The victim received a small burn on his second finger, left hand, that would have been consistent with contact with the tip of a welding rod." "The welder had no abnormalities or defects. The welder cables, PrestoFlex #2GA 600 volt, were in good condition." "Welding gloves and protective clothing were not being worn at the time of the accident. During the investigation no gloves were found at the mine site but, reportably, there had been gloves on the site approximately three weeks prior to the accident."

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T_Bone

07-16-2005 07:58:22




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
Hi Dave,

Well just remember not to get yourself between the electrode and ground as this is when you can get a good jolt.

I do agree that it is too your advantage to find out just how you react to DC current as everyone has a difference tolerance. There's some people who could never weld or work on cars or just shouldn't be around anything electrical as they have a very low tolerance.

If you have been bitten by a spark plug that should tell you where your at tolerance wise. If that didn't bother you too much, then you won't have a problem with welding.

The Tig process is the best gotcha welding there is. You'll stick the filler rod to the tungsten then ground the filler rod, then zap, gotcha. You will quickly learn not to do that.

T_Bone

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Redmud

07-16-2005 03:49:33




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
Digger, if you do much welding, your gona get shocked. It's not a big deal. If you plan to do serious welding, then you need to find out what it feels like... welding while standing on a wet Aluminum ladder, or hanging by one hand from the windmill is not the time to check out your reaction. If you were standing next to someone that did welding for a living, you would never know by his reaction that he got a jolt. It comes with the territory.

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MarkB_MI

07-15-2005 18:50:58




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
There's a lot of inductance in a welder's output transformer. When you break an arc, the output voltage of the welder is going to spike, just like the primary circuit of an automotive ignition when you open the points. If you happen to have your body shorting the electrode and ground when this happens, you'll get a jolt. I doubt that this shock is life-threatening, though: the voltage spike has such high-frequency components that it will mostly travel through the surface of your skin rather than through your internal organs.

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Davis In SC

07-15-2005 18:49:23




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
Changing rods without gloves, As a rule, white flux rods, flux is non-conductive. But Black Flux, (Such as on NI rods) is conductive, & may jolt you if you are grounded..... .



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Galen

07-15-2005 18:42:24




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
A few weeks ago, I was helping my BIL build a trailer for his yuppie tractor. I was underneath greasing and he was welding on the top. It was a hot, humid day and my cap was soaked with sweat. I started to climb out from underneath when the world went white and it felt like my teeth flew out. He had tossed the electrode over the side and the tip contacted the bill if my cap while my hind end was in contact with the trailer frame. After about a week, my teeth quit hurting.....

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Vern-MI

07-16-2005 04:28:09




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to Galen, 07-15-2005 18:42:24  
Wow that was a nasty experience. It sounds like what they used to do to patients at the mental health hospital.



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Galen

07-16-2005 04:30:40




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to Vern-MI, 07-16-2005 04:28:09  
Yeah - who knows - I may have NEEDED it! 8^)



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thejdman01

07-15-2005 18:20:34




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
by kneeling on the piece you are welding on. "dont ask how i know" aka kneeling on the combine near where welding. also standing near where your welding when you got sweaty feet. that combine bit me twice that day. guess thats why i dont like tin cob crushers



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thejdman01

07-15-2005 18:20:30




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
by kneeling on the piece you are welding on. "dont ask how i know" aka kneeling on the combine near where welding. also standing near where your welding when you got sweaty feet. that combine bit me twice that day. guess thats why i dont like tin cob crushers



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oliverdave

07-15-2005 16:56:26




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
You don't want to stand out in the rain when your welding.BAD IDEA My brother did this and got a good shock.



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buickanddeere

07-15-2005 15:10:40




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
Open circuit voltage while the welder is energized but no arc struck can poke you a good one. Voltage while running an arc is in the 20's and 30's if memory serves. Slim chance of getting more than a tingle or a "bite" feeling from that.



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MAC,IL

07-15-2005 14:59:05




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
When we replaced fire hydrants or installed new ones, we welded sucker rod pieces to hold them on the existing pipe before blocking and backfilling,
guarantee you can get the S*** shocked out of you. Muddy boots dont help ya much either. Been there and done that. Follow rules. you cannot be to careful or overly cautious. It makes a feller a little gun shy.



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Jim Broughton

07-15-2005 14:17:34




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
Diggerdave; I see you are planning to take a welding class...so did I at our community college, so I could be certified to weld pipe. Well,they issued us coveralls to wear in the welding practice booth.I"m welding away,smell smoke,look down and my crotch is on fire! I rush out of the booth, ripping off my coveralls and the instructor says what are you doing? I exclaimed, I"m trying to save the family jewels!! So be careful in that welding class. Good luck, Jim

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farmweld

07-15-2005 13:38:14




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
old has it right. you have to be the connecting point in the curcit. i.e. ground clamp still laying in wet grass, and you holding the electrode holder, trust me, it happened. or holding both clamps. im sure there are other ways, but these seem the most common to me, welding in the field as much as a shop.
farmweld



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dr.sportster

07-15-2005 12:49:59




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
Used 3 phase and ungrounded trailer mounted units for 3 years active and 3 reserve in the USMC gloves,no gloves,touched everythiing but both leads.Got a civlian welder hooked up in the dads garage 100 amp service and first time I took off my gloves and held a square to a workpiece got rapped big time.Only thing I could figure is my dads service had no ground rod but never really understood that shock.I know this ;dont pick up the guys ground clamp you knocked off while leaning on the column if hes up on the steel still trying to stike an arc.

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old

07-15-2005 12:37:50




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to diggerdave, 07-15-2005 12:02:05  
Well most of the time it is hard to get shocked by a welder but it can and does happen. If you grap hold of both leads you will get shocked and maybe even dead. To get shocked you need to be in the center of the circuit and when you grab the thing your welding on your just plain not in the center so to speak. I weld all the time with out gloves, ya I should wear gloves but I don't and haven't for years. I did wear them when I worked as a welder but I don't now just because I don't, no real reason for not doing so. But as I said its hard to get shocked unless your just plain dumb and do things very wrong.

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mike brown

07-15-2005 12:47:09




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to old, 07-15-2005 12:37:50  
Dave;
You can get shocked by a welder but unless there is somethng very wrong with your machine it should never be dangerous. They are set up to produce no more than eighty open circuit volts.



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dr.sportster

07-15-2005 12:53:04




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to mike brown, 07-15-2005 12:47:09  
Amps kills and burns not volts.We all gotten 20,000 volts off our lawnmower plug wires.Only 50 milliamps will stop the heart.



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Coloken

07-15-2005 13:21:32




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to dr.sportster, 07-15-2005 12:53:04  
Yes, but it takes the volts to overcome the resistance of the skin. Try putting one finger of each hand on the posts of a 12 volt battery--extreme example. At about 30 or 40 volts, you begin to feel it, depending on how sweaty you are. Yes, a flash light battery will kill you if it is connected under the skin in the right place. Good grounds from maachine to earth are recomended.



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Chuck Davis

07-16-2005 04:58:13




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to Coloken, 07-15-2005 13:21:32  
Sweat soaked or wet gloves are by far the most common reason for getting zapped by a welding machine. It follows the same lodgic as working with any electricity. Dont weld in the rain,or while standing in water. Getting shocked by a welder is more annoying than anything.If you want pain,catch a hot blob of molten metal in your ear,where you hear the wax boiling. Thats pain! LOL.Chuck Davis



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dr.sportster

07-16-2005 12:05:36




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to Chuck Davis , 07-16-2005 04:58:13  
Drinking Gatorade seems to make your sweat more conductive.I think Gatorade is some type of saltwater.



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Tim B MA

07-19-2005 09:19:02




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to dr.sportster, 07-16-2005 12:05:36  
Hey dr., how did you come to that observation? Doing experiments with you little brother or something?



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dr.sportster

07-21-2005 15:26:03




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to Tim B MA, 07-19-2005 09:19:02  
No, I work in a 23000 volt switchyard.Conductivity matters.



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Big Jim

07-18-2005 23:21:02




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 Re: getting shocked when welding in reply to dr.sportster, 07-16-2005 12:05:36  
Gatorade is an elecrtolyte replacement so yes, it has a ton of salts in it.



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