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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Welding and other gases

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Bernie in MA

07-07-2005 17:02:06




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Does anybody know how gas is concentrated and compressed into tanks?




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Bernie in MA

07-08-2005 17:13:42




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 Re: Welding and other gases in reply to Bernie in MA, 07-07-2005 17:02:06  
Thanks for your replies. My reason for asking is I'm hoping to someday make a wood-gas producer to run one of my tractors. If there was a way to compress and store it I could make it all winter while heating my shop. Gasoline went up .12 yesterday and .06 today. Now 2.419.

Wood-gas was used in Europe and Australia extensively during WW II.



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Stan in Oly, WA

07-09-2005 23:25:36




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 Re: Welding and other gases in reply to Bernie in MA, 07-08-2005 17:13:42  
Hi, Bernie

Another thing you could make while heating your shop is alcohol, which can be used as a fuel with less modification of your equipment than would be required to use wood-gas.

Basic distillation is amazingly simple, as is alcohol production by fermentation. Alcohol of one type or another can be produced from almost any organic material.

I haven't had any reason to check the tax code about this lately, but as recently as a few years ago there was still a provision for a tax credit for a small producer of ethyl alcohol for fuel purposes. Small meant tens of thousands of gallons rather than millions.

Going through the process of getting licensed with the government to distill ethyl alcohol probably wasn't on your do to list, not even near the bottom. Concerning the informal route, I've never heard of anyone being arrested for moonshining to run farm equipment, but there's lots of things I haven't heard of.

All the best, Stan

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Old Peddler

07-09-2005 03:49:58




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 Re: Welding and other gases in reply to Bernie in MA, 07-08-2005 17:13:42  
I believe "Mother Earth News" magazine had several articles about this a few years back. From what I can remember it works well but the ash has to be cleaned by filtering the smoke going into the engine.

Not sure if you could pump or store combustible wood smoke, although I am sure someone has tried at some time. If you are going to try, be very careful.

Good Luck!



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T_Bone

07-10-2005 10:57:26




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 Re: Welding and other gases in reply to Old Peddler, 07-09-2005 03:49:58  
Hi Bernnie,

You might want to gander at this website as it has alot of good useful info plus links to other websites.

Really check on the info you refference as there's more shade-tree making fuels than there is making shade on the internet. Some of the diesel fuel info I would not burn in my diesel engines.

I found alot of great fuel testing being done at a few University's. There's draw backs to making your own fuel, mostly from increased engine or specific componet ware, so one would have to weigh the cost of free fuel vs increased repair cost.

The "Fed's" allow each "individual" to make 400gal/yr of "each" fuel type wihtout paying tax on that fuel. So a man and wife are allowed 800gals/yr or 1600gal/yr with 2 children. Just don't try and sell your excess fuel you've made.

Another consideration is the local fire marshall. There are no rules to storing "cooking oil" but there is alot of rules for storing "fuel oil". Besure and name the substance correctly for less headaches. Neighbors also have been known to turn in there neighbors making fuel as some fuel making process have a odd odor just like meth labs.

Also fuel tanks on "wheels" don't have but a few regulations but mount that fuel tank to the ground and you have all kinds of regs to follow.
Doesn't mean the fuel trailer has to leave the property, just being capable of doing so.

T_Bone

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T_Bone

07-08-2005 09:14:05




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 Re: Welding and other gases in reply to Bernie in MA, 07-07-2005 17:02:06  
Hi Bernie,

On some gas, one method described by my BIL who works for NCG gas, is to compress air then refrigerate that air in what looks like a fraction distillate tower to below the desired gas boiling point where the gas becomes a liquid then is drained off into a storage tank.

That could be in the minus 300� range depending on the desired gas wanted.

I haven't asked him in years but today I would think alot of commerical gas would be made from chemical rections.

Carbide and water makes acetylene gas.

T_Bone

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RayP(MI)

07-07-2005 18:11:39




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 Re: Welding and other gases in reply to Bernie in MA, 07-07-2005 17:02:06  
Acetylene is disolved in Acetone (I think), other gasses use a very good air compressor!



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RYAN BLAND

07-08-2005 06:25:34




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 Re: Welding and other gases in reply to RayP(MI), 07-07-2005 18:11:39  
ACETYLENE IS MADE UP OF ACETONE DISSOLVED IN WATER, ANYONE EVER HAVE CHEMISTRY CLASS



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david - OR

07-08-2005 09:00:50




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 Re: Welding and other gases in reply to RYAN BLAND, 07-08-2005 06:25:34  
Acetylene has the chemical formula C2H2. Acetone has the chemical formual CH3OHCH3. Similar to many alchohols, acetone is completely miscible with water. Acetylene is not "made up" of acetone "dissolved" in water, nor can it be generated by any reaction between acetone and water.

Acetylene can be generated by reacting Calcium Carbide with water. (CaC2 + 2H2O -> C2H2 + Ca(OH)2) Acetlyene cannot be dissolved in water. These two properties are what made acetylene lamps popular in the days before rural electrification. This is also the "experiment" commonly performed in high school chemistry class.

Acetylene welding cylinders are filled with crushed firebrick soaked in acetone. Acetylene is dissolved into the acetone. This is safer than shipping compressed acetylene, which has the potential to explosively decompose.

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Joe(TX)

07-11-2005 08:22:40




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 Re: Welding and other gases in reply to david - OR, 07-08-2005 09:00:50  
adding to David's answer:
The acetone stabilizes the acetylene so it will not explode which it can do if the presure is over 15 psi.



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504

07-07-2005 19:28:31




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 Re: Welding and other gases in reply to RayP(MI), 07-07-2005 18:11:39  
Pumps,very good pumps.



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