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Electric vs. Engine driven Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump

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Paul J. Decker

01-14-2001 04:17:28




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Most, if not all, new snow plow set-ups come with an electric driven hydraulic pump to lift and/or angle the blade. My father had a '60s Jeepster that I remember had an engine driven pump. I am considering an engine driven pump so I may use it for other hydraulic applications. I am not real keen on taxing the alternator more. Does anybody have any comments on this subject? what about engine RPM vs. pump output. I know the flow will vary with engine speed and the specs are available for the pump in question. Will the pump self destruct at high engine RPM? What Engine speed should I figure the plow blade to be typically lifted at? The electric units are only about 1 GPM.

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RayP

01-18-2001 19:22:37




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 Re: Electric vs. Engine driven Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump in reply to Paul J. Decker, 01-14-2001 04:17:28  
Paul - I bought a blade from a guy's front yard about 10 years back, had to come up with my own mount and lift system. Went through the same questions you're dealing with. I got a rebuilt Monarch electric pump. It has been superb. My blade had been modified by someone out of a blacksmith shop - and it is HEAVY, so heavy, that I had to put a flow restrictor in the return line to keep it from dropping too fast! I will grant you that my truck has dual batteries, (it's a diesel,) but the stock 100 amp alternator runs everything, pump, lites, including a big beacon lite on the roof, 2 way radio, and still keeps the batteries up, and with a diesel that's major a importance. Control is a small box on the seat beside me with two rocker switches, very convenient, and can be removed in seconds when needed. Pump assembly is a log about 5 1/2" in dia, and 16" long all fit under the hood, very nice installation. Almost every plow you'd buy as a package has some sort of electric pump. If they weren't OK, the major manufacturers wouldn't be using them. This pump was recommended to me by a fellow who has had, and abused 'em all!

Ran into a fellow a while back who had done a do-it-yourself install on an older truck. He used a power steering pump with a large reservoir. Told me it was an "on demand" pump, and didn't load the engine when not called upon to lift. He said it worked well. The down side was the hydraulic valves under the hood, and the rods through the firewall, to the bottom of the dashboard. Not a very pretty install, but you might consider this, if you decide not to go electric. Good luck!

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Paul J.Decker

01-15-2001 03:31:22




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 Re: Electric vs. Engine driven Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump in reply to Paul J. Decker, 01-14-2001 04:17:28  
Thanx guys, you've all confirmed my suspicions. The electric unit will tax the electrical system too much. The engine driven pump itself is cheaper than the electric and I can make the engine brackets myself. I am going to try to put the clutch on the crankshaft itself so even the belt is not running when I don't need it. I'm installing on a '95 Dakota with the 318 engine. I am looking for some good books on hydraulic circuits and am considering the ones sold by Burden's Surplus.

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Tom R

01-15-2001 11:50:32




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 Re: Re: Electric vs. Engine driven Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump in reply to Paul J.Decker, 01-15-2001 03:31:22  
Paul:

Here is a source where you can download a free military manual that has quite a little information in it. Hope this helps Tom R



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.

01-31-2001 19:41:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Electric vs. Engine driven Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump in reply to Tom R, 01-15-2001 11:50:32  
.



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Tom R

01-15-2001 11:53:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Electric vs. Engine driven Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump in reply to Tom R, 01-15-2001 11:50:32  
Sorry it looks like the link didn't work. This is the site address.
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/5-499/toc.htm



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Wardner

01-15-2001 09:59:32




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 Re: Re: Electric vs. Engine driven Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump in reply to Paul J.Decker, 01-15-2001 03:31:22  
I think that you are looking for trouble if you modify the harmonic balancer on the end of the crank. Put the clutch on the pump. I use a five gpm clutch pump on my F350 6.9 diesel and it lifts the plow in about 1/4 second. The pump also runs a winch.



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T_Bone

01-15-2001 03:48:16




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 Re: Re: Electric vs. Engine driven Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump in reply to Paul J.Decker, 01-15-2001 03:31:22  
Hi Paul, Without running duel battery's and a battery isloator, it will pull a alternator down alot, with one battery being a deep cycle for the hydraulic pump.

They do make a belt driven hydraullic pump with a AC type clutch. Northern Tools sells them.

For a hydraulic book I suggest:
"Lets Get Into Hydraulics" by IT books #IT201 about $6.85 deleivered.

T_Bone

Link



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Greg

01-15-2001 08:26:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Electric vs. Engine driven Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump in reply to T_Bone, 01-15-2001 03:48:16  
HI T-Bone!

Looked up your link. Interesting site. Bookmarked it. They didn't have that book listed. They had a followup to it. Put in a request for information.

Do you have the author's name and/or an ISBN number? Maybe I can find it in a used book site. Hydraulics is one area I need to get stronger in.

Thanks.



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T_Bone

01-15-2001 16:45:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Electric vs. Engine driven Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump in reply to Greg, 01-15-2001 08:26:14  
Hi Greg, This book is actually a collection of articles writen by different authors over a period of time and says it was originally printed in " Implement & Tractor Magazine". You might want to give them a call at 800-262-1954 and see if it's a new reprint and they just haven't got it on there website yet. ISBN 0-87288-776-6, 1974 issue

This book also covers Farm Equipment electrical Systems.

There is also another very good book put out by Parker Hydraulics that is a very in depth technicial book for hydraulic system design engineers. Sorry I can't give you any more details as mine is in storage, but has a yellow cover and I bought at WW Graingers 15yrs ago but is still being sold by Graingers. 5H565 Industrial Hydraulics, 6ZF44 Hydraulic Maintenance and 5H655 Hydraulic Design Engineers Handbook each costing $20 in 1992. I think I have the Industrial book but the handbook was best because it covered anything you wanted to know about engineering hydraulic systems leaving no stone unturned.

Hope this helped.

T_Bone

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Tom R

01-14-2001 07:05:42




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 Re: Electric vs. Engine driven Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump in reply to Paul J. Decker, 01-14-2001 04:17:28  
I have a Western Pro Plow with the
electric/hydraulic pump and a Meyers with a belt driven pump, the electric really puts a drain on the battery when you lift the blade. Since most of the type of plowing I do the truck is nearly stopped when I lift the blade, the engine driven pump is a little but, not much faster unless you put it in neutral and rev up the engine, if you have a manual transmission and clutch then it would be easier to do that.


If you are going to consider an engine driven pump I would recommend you use one with an electric clutch so you can disengage the clutch when you do not need the pump. You can get clutch models with either 2 V Belts or a Serpentine Pulley. Also I would recommend you size the pump capacity and reservoir size around the must rigorous use you would need the hydraulics for and not the snowplow application.

Just my opinion Tom R.

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Jim K

01-14-2001 06:55:47




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 Re: Electric vs. Engine driven Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump in reply to Paul J. Decker, 01-14-2001 04:17:28  
Paul the only time you want to go with the electric setup is when you absolutely can't squeeze the hydraulic setup under the hood.
Jim K



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chief613

01-14-2001 04:59:32




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 Re: Electric vs. Engine driven Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump in reply to Paul J. Decker, 01-14-2001 04:17:28  
I have had one of each, currently electric. If u have any option go with motor driven pump. I had heard that electric was bad before i got this electric, and wanted the garage to put a engine driven one on my current truck when i got it, they said that it couldnt be done. Not knowin at the time how bad a eltric pump was i didnt push it. One cold snowy nites plowin there is a wicked draw on the eletric system.....lights, heater, wippers, radio and that dam pump. When i adjust the plow i cuts out the radio, lights dim way down and heater fan almost stops. I go through about a battery every 2 years, and i only plow 2 driveways. Mine is slower than death on a resperator, i have heard other are fast, but thats others i guess. As far as other appications, i have heard of a guy that connects to hydr. jack. He places several jacks under buildins to raise em. I never seen his set up, so aint sure on the whole thing. We made a clamp to lift and move them concrete parkin lot curbins to attack to the lift, worked fairly well.

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F14

01-14-2001 05:09:39




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 Re: Re: Electric vs. Engine driven Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump in reply to chief613, 01-14-2001 04:59:32  
Definitely engine-driven. I don't know that it'll be particularly useful for other applications, but it's a WHOLE lot easier on the truck for plowing.

I have an 8-1/2 foot Diamond with engine-driven pump and solenoid controls on my 89 Chevy 1-ton. I love it.

Have worked with electric-hydraulic on Jeep and Dodge trucks, and they were a giant PITA, hard on batteries and breaking down all the time.

The only place I could see a use for the electrics is on smaller trucks pushing very light plows.

The engine-drive is more expensive, and harder to install, but worth it, IMHO.

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