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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Spring Pressure

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Bob724

06-16-2005 19:53:15




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Is there a formula or something to determine the pressure of a spring. It is 1 1/4" long with 3/4" I.D. and .080 wire made of steel with ends ground. Thanks




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Mike M

06-18-2005 18:45:07




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 Re: Spring Pressure in reply to Bob724, 06-16-2005 19:53:15  
Don't waste the time with all those formulas. If you are trying to find out how much pressure a spring makes and you have it in you hand set a bathroom scale up on your hyd. press or even a drill press put the spring on top push down with the press or chuck to a set hieght and read what the scales says. It's as easy as that.



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dr.sportster

06-19-2005 06:19:30




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 Re: Spring Pressure in reply to Mike M, 06-18-2005 18:45:07  
I agree with Mike.Math and reality will differ here.Without a real test I dont think the math will be real accurate.



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jackal5

06-17-2005 18:19:41




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 Re: Spring Pressure in reply to Bob724, 06-16-2005 19:53:15  
you need the spring constant and the deflection(within allowable range):

F = kx, k = spring const(Force/distance), N or Lbf
x = deflection (distance), consistent units
F = Force, N or Lbf

vapor has a 'better' answer. i.e. more attainable if material is known.



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NC Wayne

06-16-2005 21:30:57




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 Re: Spring Pressure in reply to Bob724, 06-16-2005 19:53:15  
Try giving the folks at Lee Spring a call, they should be able to tell you anything you want to know about springs and how their rated, etc. Check out their site and order a catalog too, they have just about anything you could possibly want when it comes to springs. One thing you'll find is that there are many kinds of springs out there. Some, due to the material their made of, the way their wound, etc maintain an almost constant amount of force throughout their range of compression. On the other hand there are also those that get progressivly stronger, or whatever, also due to the way their made. If you really need to be precise in the measurement of your spring there is a tool to actually measure the specs on a spring. Just about any engine machine shop or anybody seriously involved in building racing/high performance cylinder heads ought to have one. Basically it's a lever you use to compress the spring onto a scale, and you get your specs based on the amount the springs is compressed and the load applied at various stages of compression, etc.

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vapor

06-16-2005 21:38:44




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 Re: Spring Pressure in reply to NC Wayne, 06-16-2005 21:30:57  
That would be too easy! :-)



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vapor

06-16-2005 20:50:40




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 Re: Spring Pressure in reply to Bob724, 06-16-2005 19:53:15  
Yes, but you'll need a lot more information. The type and temper of the steel would have to be known. You also need the number of active coils. The force will depend on how much the spring is compressed. Since there are so many variables, the easiest way would be to take some direct measurements, which shouldnt be too tough since the ends are ground. What you may really be after is what is called the spring rate. That's the force for each unit of compression. Try getting some different known weights, put them on the spring, and measure the length. After a few measurements you should be able to figure what the spring rate is. That will be an expression like 20 lbs per 1/4" (just an example). If you know what length the spring will be compressed, then you can figure the force. In this example, if the spring were compressed 3/8", the force would be 30 lbs.

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Joe(TX)

06-21-2005 05:28:18




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 Re: Spring Pressure in reply to vapor, 06-16-2005 20:50:40  
vapor
The second statement in your reply is incorrect. The type of steel and its temper do not affect the spring rate. It only determines how long it will last. You will notice the formulas for rate do not have any input for strength. The spring rate is in pounds per inch of deflection.
I agree with your other statements with the addition that the number of turns is for comlete coils.



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vapor

06-22-2005 07:44:13




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 Re: Spring Pressure in reply to Joe(TX), 06-21-2005 05:28:18  
The modulus of elasticity in shear/torsion (G in the spring formula) is most certainly a material property. The modulus of a bronze or brass spring, for example, is less than half that of music wire. The modulus is also a mild function of wire diameter. vapor



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vapor

06-16-2005 21:03:25




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 Formula in reply to vapor, 06-16-2005 20:50:40  
If we had all of the information the formula is:

(GddddF/8NDDD)

G=Modulus of elasticity of material in torsion (psi)
d=diameter of wire (inches)
F=deflection of active coils (inches)
N=number of active coils
D=mean coil diameter (OD-d)



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vapor

06-16-2005 21:36:24




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 Re: Formula in reply to vapor, 06-16-2005 21:03:25  
Made some assumptions on your spring and did the calculation. There isn't that much difference in the torsional modulus of different steels. The spring rate is:

18.09/N pounds for every 1/4" of compression. N is the number of active coils. This is the number of turns not counting the flat ground parts (doesn't have to be a whole number). For example, if you counted 5.5 turns, then the force would be 3.28 lbs of force for every 1/4" of compression.

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Bob724

06-17-2005 15:06:12




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 Re: Formula in reply to vapor, 06-16-2005 21:36:24  
NC Wayne and Vapor thank you for the information and going to all the trouble to figure that out. I didn't know it would be that complicated. I'll try adding the weight and see what happens. Thank you again.



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