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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Big Mistake:

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Carol Martin

06-03-2005 17:22:46




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Just made a big mistake on my Trackloader. Had couple of 3/4 bolts hear off on the plate that holds the track carriers on.. got everything out of the way and drilled a 3/16 hole thru the center of the bolt and filled the hole with pb blaster.. so it could soak from top and bottom.. let it set overnight and next morning tried to get it to move with no luck..Next I thought Well I will give it a little heat to help the oil do its job. got it good and hot with the acetelyne torch and let it set again.. went back and tried to coax it out again.. WOW. That bolt is now super HARD even carbide drills dont like it.. only thing that is working at all is a carbide Burr in my dremel tool
There is about 1 1/2 in of bolt in the hole so its is a slow process. It must have been the combination of the heat and the PB Blaster that caused it to Harden like that.. There was quite a bit of oil down in the bottom of the hole so it was sort of oil quenched..

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Jim in MA.

06-05-2005 05:59:02




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 Re: Big Mistake: in reply to Carol Martin, 06-03-2005 17:22:46  
Ok now that you got it out... put neverseize on new bolt before you put back together It's worth it's weight in gold



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Carol Martin

06-05-2005 08:44:57




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 Re: Big Mistake: in reply to Jim in MA., 06-05-2005 05:59:02  
yew betcha. almost always use neversieze.. only time that I dont is when I use silicone caulk on the threads. That is a neat little trick I learned from an old timer..Bolts that tend to loosen due to vibration ect.. put a little silicone on them and they will stay put. cannot tell you why it works just know that it does..
Thanks everyone for tips and suggestions..

Carol



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Mark - IN.

06-04-2005 21:38:35




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 Re: Big Mistake: in reply to Carol Martin, 06-03-2005 17:22:46  
You just might have something there. In the seventies, everything I owned had headers. If you know anything about them, or seen them used on the street for a period of time, you know that they rust and rot. Cast iron manifolds do not. The solution to that was bolt a 2x4 across the head ports, fill with oil through the collectors, dump, and hang over night to drip as much out as possible. After putting them on, looked like a James Bond smoke screen going down the road until it burnt out, but the point was for the oil to crystalize and harden inside the heated (opened) pores of the insides of the headers, virtually rust proofing them from the inside. Didn't help the outsides, but ceramic coating took care of that.

When you heat a bolt, never heat the metal surrounding it, and take out right away while it's still hot. Good to know about the PB Blaster thing. You just may've come up with a cheap way of case hardening. Good luck.

Mark

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Roy Suomi

06-03-2005 20:44:20




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 Re: Big Mistake: in reply to Carol Martin, 06-03-2005 17:22:46  
I cut the bolt out with a torch. Start in the center where the 3/16 hole is then go to the edge where the threads are. Make a couple of cuts , you should be able to pick out some sections with a sharpened punch and hammer. J.D. crawlers are known for this, done it many times...



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Davis in SC

06-03-2005 18:27:07




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 Re: Big Mistake: in reply to Carol Martin, 06-03-2005 17:22:46  
Here is a suggestion to get bolts soft again. Heat them up shy of red, around 800 degrees, then lightly run the flame over them to keep them from cooling too fast. Do that for several minutes, letting them cool slowly. As long as you do not reach the critical temp. (Probably something over 1500F), the part will not get any harder. The way to get steel at it's softest is to bring it just shy of the critical temp, then cool it very slowly. I think what happened is that the surrounding metal pulled the heat away, acting as a quench. And the PB Blaster cooled it even more.

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RP

06-04-2005 07:48:03




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 Re: Big Mistake: in reply to Davis in SC, 06-03-2005 18:27:07  
Is there any chance that the PB broke down under heat and the resulting carbon case-hardened it? If so, maybe after you've broken through the "skin" with the grinder, the drill will work again.



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Carol Martin

06-04-2005 08:17:03




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 Re: Big Mistake: in reply to RP, 06-04-2005 07:48:03  
I finally got it cleaned out ok but it sure made the job a lot more difficult.. had to take most of it out with a little die grinder and carbide burr..slow process but it works..



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Woodrow Caul

06-04-2005 18:30:18




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 Re: Big Mistake: in reply to Carol Martin, 06-04-2005 08:17:03  
next time you might try this. Start in the center of a broken bolt. We generaly use a MIG but arc will work. Turn it up HOT. Well an ant hill or in center and start building up about the width of a hex nut. Slip an old nut over it and weld the to the nut. Let it cool but not plum cold. Turn it out with a wrench. All of the heat goes to the bolt and rust. Also MIG wire will not stick to cast.

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Randall Goldsmith

06-08-2005 15:30:35




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 Re: Big Mistake: in reply to Woodrow Caul, 06-04-2005 18:30:18  
Woodrow got it right in my book, I've been welding nuts on broken bolts for many years, works especially well when it's a steel bolt broken off in aluminum, mig a nut on it let it cool a minute and gently turn it, sometimes a tap with a hammer helps too, All the best!
R



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