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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

50:1 mix -

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mud

05-15-2005 09:12:22

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Can someone tell me whether or not 2 stoke synthetic oil is worth using? I hear conflicting opinions and still can't tell if you should use the blame stuff or not!

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DITCH

05-18-2005 12:18:06

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to mud, 05-15-2005 09:12:22

You guys sound like you know more about oil than should be allowed.Anyway I was at the local stihl dealer the other day and the parts man said that the stihl mix was only good for no more than 30 days,any truth to this?

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05-18-2005 16:49:45

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to DITCH, 05-18-2005 12:18:06

No, the oil mix is good forever, the gas you put in the oil will go bad after 30 days. Most quality 2 cycle oils do have a form of stabilzer in them to help keep that from happening.

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lucasss

05-18-2005 05:03:00

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to mud, 05-15-2005 09:12:22

the controversy goes on..... you can buy stihl,huskvarna,or echo oil ,mix it accordin to the bottle and run any 2 stroke safely,they are high grade stnthetic.. the difference in cheep oil and these oils is that the cheep oils are for slow running engines under 6000 rpm, the high grade syn oils are for high rpm engines runing 12000 rpm... the cheep oils wont get the job done in the high rpm engines . its just that simple..the 100 to 1 syn oils have failures because there is no room for the least error in mixing,operators fault ,not the oil.there is room for error using stihl,echo and huskvarna oils... lucas

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05-18-2005 16:52:07

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to lucasss, 05-18-2005 05:03:00

Unless Stihl has changed in the last few years, they were using a parafin based oil. This caused a lot of problems with plugged up muffler and screens and not burning complete. and slobbering down the muffler.

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Eddie in MI

05-17-2005 09:27:49

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to mud, 05-15-2005 09:12:22

Synthetic 2 cycle oil????

We use Stihl 50:1 in EVERYTHING we own that is 2 cycle. It is by far our favorite. It's easy to use and does what it's supposed to.
My .02.

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ScottP

05-17-2005 09:11:28

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to mud, 05-15-2005 09:12:22

Mud This is the story told to me by a synthetic oil salesman.
If the bottle says 100:1 you have to wash all the oil out of that bottle to get that mix ratio.
He also said they dont recommend switching back and forth between synithetic and conventional oil. After the synthetic oil is used the conventional oil wont stick as well to the moving parts.
I use 50:1 in everything, chainsaws, string trimmer and leaf blower. I mix 1 gallon at a time and use fresh gas. Scott

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Nolan

05-17-2005 04:16:31

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to mud, 05-15-2005 09:12:22

I've used it for years in two strokes with very good results.

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MarkB_MI

05-17-2005 03:25:07

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to mud, 05-15-2005 09:12:22

Note that most 2-cycle oils are specifically formulated for either water-cooled or air-cooled engines. Substituting one for the other can have very bad results, whether the oil is synthetic or not. Water-cooled engines operate at different temperatures than air-cooled engines, and the oil needs to be formulated for the operating temperature.

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dr.sportster

05-16-2005 13:08:52

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to mud, 05-15-2005 09:12:22

Does it cost alot more?If yes then why buy it?I dont understand this whole synthetic oil thing.

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Ludwig

05-16-2005 15:00:39

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to dr.sportster, 05-16-2005 13:08:52

On my old Ski-Doo the engine ran more smoothly, started easier and smoked less.
I also figured that if it was made to be run at 100:1 and I ran it at 60:1 I'd have a nice safety margin.

The the car and truck the oil is like twice as expensive but I change it half as often so it evens out. In the diesel car the engine runs much quieter and is startable in the at temps I couldn't even imagine starting it at with conventional oil without twenty minutes on the block heater.

It also helped my old White lawnmower (12hp B&S) run again when I thought it was down for the count.

My Dodge Dakota was leaking a quart of conventional oil every 500 miles from the rear main seal when I switched to synthetic. Now some 40,000 miles later its only leaked like 3/4 of a quart in the last 3,000 miles.

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Ludwig

05-16-2005 10:45:21

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to mud, 05-15-2005 09:12:22

Remember a couple years ago synthetic oils were not as great as they are now. I use synthetic in just about everything.
I used the Amsoil 100:1 oil at 60:1 in an old Ski-Doo that called for 20:1 a couple years ago and it ran just great. I then switched to a conventional oil at 50:1 and the engine burned down.
This summer I'm going to try the Amsoil 100:1 in the chainsaws. We've been running them with 50:1 conventional oil for a couple years so I don't think the jump to 60:1 is a big one. I'll consider 70:1 after we've done 60:1 for awhile.

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05-16-2005 17:11:58

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to Ludwig, 05-16-2005 10:45:21

One of the problems with running a lean oil mix is the quality of the fuels you are using. Most oil related engine failures are associated with poor oil AND poor quality fuel. If you use good oil AND good fuel, you should have no oil related engine failures, running at a leaner oil to fuel ratio.

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Ludwig

05-17-2005 12:01:56

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to JT, 05-16-2005 17:11:58

I hear that! I use premium gas in everything 2 stroke. I hear people groan but on a 5 gallon can we're talking about $1 difference. I can definately tell the difference in how stuff runs between premium and regular.

Also with the Amsoil I had to lean the mix on the old Ski-Doo or it would definately suffer from running too rich, which is probably in part why it burnt when I went to conventional oil, I should have richened the mix again.
Interestingly that sled wouldn't run worth a hoot on 20:1 conventional oil, there was always a flat spot I couldn't tune out. With the Amsoil at 60:1 that problem disappeared entirely.

I quit running the Amsoil in the sleds because of their lame marketing structure. Still have part of can left which I intend to run in the chainsaws and weed wacker this summer. Will know more about that next week.

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Leland

05-15-2005 21:07:51

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to mud, 05-15-2005 09:12:22

Oregon make an all in one mix and I have used it in everything form boats to weed wackers and have not had problem one yet you mix 2 onces of this oil to 1 gal of gas for any mix. JT could awnser this question better than me he also sells an all for one oil in his shop but don't know brand.

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05-16-2005 17:13:10

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to Leland, 05-15-2005 21:07:51

we sell Opti oil, seems to be a good oil.

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MAC,IL

05-15-2005 09:20:05

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to mud, 05-15-2005 09:12:22

I never got in on the pro"s and con"s of synthetic oils. On the mixed gas, I just get whatever the dealer has and recommends. One bottle per gal of petro. Always worked for me. No measuring.

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Steve-Maine

05-15-2005 17:08:38

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to MAC,IL, 05-15-2005 09:20:05

I tried Amsoil one summer and lost 3 saw engines during hot weather. I now only use Jonesred mix in my saws and use high test gas as it burns cooler than regular gas. Haven't lost an engine in over 15 years with the Jonesred oil.

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mud

05-15-2005 18:21:45

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to Steve-Maine, 05-15-2005 17:08:38

That's proof enough for me. I use Husqvarna oil in a Husky saw.

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T_Bone

05-16-2005 04:03:00

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Re: 50:1 mix - in reply to mud, 05-15-2005 18:21:45

Hi Mud,

You might want to search the acrhives on this forum as 2 to 3yrs ago there was a long good discussion on using synethetic 2cycle oils.

Most of the synethetic oils were listed as 100:1 ratio and a few who tried that mix ratio, scored a piston and/or cylinder.

I see that in the past couple years that 2cycle mfg's are now not recomending using 2cycle oil rated for boat applications to applications using air cooled cylinders.

When I bought my new Stihl chainsaw, I bought Stihl oil mix as there price was better than Wally World common 2cycle oil brands. Even tho Stihl recomends 50:1 mix I'm from the old school and use a 45:1 mix.

We lost a very informitive forum member over that disussion as I haven't seen him post since. To bad as we all make mistakes and can't be right 100% of the time.

T_Bone

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buickanddeere

05-16-2005 05:33:37

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lean mixture low octane are major problems in reply to T_Bone, 05-16-2005 04:03:00

If, if and if. Problem is if the 100 to 1 mix is off even a little leaner the engine will score. If the main jet mixture is leaned out, temperatures go up and the engine will score. If the cheapest low octane fuel is used detonation will occur. Particularly if the main jet is leaned out. Scored cylinders for sure then. When looking at the labels there are several types of "Two Stroke Oil". Some is for oil injection, some if for gas/oil mix, some is for cool running water-cooled outboards, some is for lawn mowers, some is for alcohol blend race engines and some is for snowmobiles with large cooling fins in cold weather Chain saws are the toughest to lube. The highest HP to cooling fin area in order to keep weight and size down. As previously stated use premium gasoline blended at 50 to 1 even if the jug says 100 to 1. As well, run that two stroke rich and tick off the EPA and the environmentalists. The rich mixture keeps combustion chamber temperatures hundreds of degrees cooler. Reading the label and using the proper two stroke oil never hurt either. Outboard oil in a chain saw is just looking for trouble.

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05-16-2005 17:23:59

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Re: lean mixture low octane are major problems in reply to buickanddeere, 05-16-2005 05:33:37

you hit the nail right on the head. The reason there is a differance between outboard oils and chain saw oil for example is the ash content. outboard engines use a high ash content, chain saws and trimmer use a no/low ash oil. As for fuel, you need the purest, high octane fuel to properly run a 75:1 or 100:1 mix. with no alchohal at all. Regular 2 cycle chain saw/trimmer oil is cheaper than the Opti synthetic oil we have, so I do not see the use. The Redmax oil I sell, at a 50:1 mix does not smoke, runs very clean, and can be mixed at less than a $1.00 for a gallon of mixed fuel. One reason for smoking 2 cycles is using old gas or not running the engine at full RPM, it makes too much noise, but this is what causes carbon build up in muffler and ports, there is not enough heat to keep it burnt out.So, to add fuel to the fire, in my opinion, synthetic 2 cycle oil is a waste of money for what little good it does.

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