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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

HOUSE ADDITIONS PERMIT

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SMark

05-09-2005 13:58:36




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I am looking to buy a small farm. I found one I really like BUT> It has 2 large additions that almost doubled the size of the house and was recently built with out a Building Permit. It is a real good job, probally up to code, but illegal. The deal would be Land contract between me and the Owner. Who keeps track of your House size> House-Title company, township, county?? How closely is it watched? I know a lot of old Farm Houses have non permit additions on them. Has anyone had trouble come to Sale time, or are illegal additions just overlooked? Would I have trouble selling in the future. OR Should I just run away from this one-Fast?

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raytasch

05-11-2005 04:15:57




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 Re: HOUSE ADDITIONS PERMIT in reply to SMark, 05-09-2005 13:58:36  
I think for the most part you got good advice, comments on your question. But: I also believe you'll find the situation varies by location and the sophistication level of government you're dealing with. Tem years ago I added onto a small house I had owned for several years and wanted to make my primary residence. Property was zoned AG. I decided to do it right and pulled the permits and went through the whole legal proceedure. Late in the build I found out that for my situation I really did not need the permit. So do your research. ray

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JerryU

05-11-2005 08:18:21




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 Re: HOUSE ADDITIONS PERMIT in reply to raytasch, 05-11-2005 04:15:57  
100% on the type of government. I live in a township and when I put on my addition I pulled a homeowners permit. My brother in law, son, and I did the work. I had a footing inspection, foundation inspection and final inspection. No electrical, no rough, and I had radiant in slab heat-no plumbing. But again, we do not have full time inspectors-our electrical inspector is a neighbor who is an electrican and gets $25 for each inspection part time. I often wondered if he inspects his own work.

JU

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JerryU

05-11-2005 04:06:11




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 Re: HOUSE ADDITIONS PERMIT in reply to SMark, 05-09-2005 13:58:36  
I think it depends on where you live and the codes. Some communities require inspections and "Certificates of Occupancy" before you can either occupy or reoccupy a house. I originally came from Iowa and never heard of such a thing past original construction. In some of the suburbs of Detroit, when you sell a house and before it can be reoccupied it must be inspected and brought up (with appropriate fees) to codes. Other communities could care less once it is built and occupied.

The assessors basically do a walk around and measure the thing--I spent time arguing with them on the size--they wouldn't even believe the construction blue prints.

Other states could even care less. My brother in law built his own house in Kentucky in the hills, he was originally from MI, only to find out the only permit and inspection he needed was an electrical. The logic there was, they didn't care if the house fell on him, but the electrical affected the rest of the people on the power system.

Go figure.

JU

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Lew Data

05-11-2005 01:46:16




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 Re: HOUSE ADDITIONS PERMIT in reply to SMark, 05-09-2005 13:58:36  
Interesting how situations like this one that involve some degree of civil wrongdoing generate responses not only from peoples experience, but from their psychological orientation, too. Quite a range of perspectives on how respondents view the relationship of the individual to the local powers-that-be (or Big Brother, take your pick.)

My own attitude about this is casual, like JJBUTSON's. I have seen a ton of illegal additions (and been complicit in 1 or 2) in the last 35 years. What I have never actually seen is someone have a serious problem on account of it. Not through inexperience, either; I have been paid by title insurance companies for damages due to flaws in title, not once, but twice.

On the other hand, what T-Bone, and Dr.Sportster say is surely relevant. Virtually all my own experience has been in a few towns and counties that I have found to be surprisingly friendly and helpful. A different local government might view its citizens as subjects, existing for the good of the rulers, mainly sources of tax money and fines.

Sometimes you can get the information you need indirectly, when going right to the source might put a big spotlight on the problem at hand. Title officers, real estate brokers, county clerks, etc. often know a lot about what is going on, and will share their knowledge if they are not specifically involved.

When I need to buy or sell a piece of property with problems, I take it for granted that it will require a real estate contract and not a bank. I never had to worry about satellites, though, I have to admit.

Good luck

Lew

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dr.sportster

05-10-2005 14:28:16




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 Re: HOUSE ADDITIONS PERMIT in reply to SMark, 05-09-2005 13:58:36  
After any inspetion they may reassess the place and then the property taxes will go up.Also if they electrical inspector is fussy or really conciencious the sheetrock would have to be opened up due to no rough-in inspection of wiring.Periodic ariel photos will catch everone with no permit expansions.



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Weirsdale George

05-09-2005 22:36:47




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 Re: HOUSE ADDITIONS PERMIT in reply to SMark, 05-09-2005 13:58:36  
I'd make the sale of the property dependent on the owner getting a valid county (or city) inspection of the addition. If you don't, you could have problems with insuring the building.



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T_Bone

05-09-2005 22:09:06




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 Re: HOUSE ADDITIONS PERMIT in reply to SMark, 05-09-2005 13:58:36  
Hi Mark,

I agree, get it worked out before you buy. I was in the Planning and Zoning(P&Z) office when a call came in about a neighbors house that had been sold (I knew the original owner). Same thing a illegal addition.

Building inspector said tuff luck to the new owner as to getting the addition upto code. You bought it, you live with it, was the attitude.

Here the County Assesor office keeps total square footage on file but gets the actual deminsions from P&Z or if there's been a illegal addition will issue an order for a new square footage total. They in turn will issue a high construction cost estimate for collecting prorperty taxes due and past due taxes.

If someone runs there mouth with anyone then a Building inspector will come out (they may do that anyway) to inspect the building. No permit is double the orginal premit cost in most cases plus a very tuff inspection, ie; dig holes for foundation inspection, remove electrical receptical covers, spot dig buried lines or sewer connections, knock holes in the wall, etc. The more the mouth runs the more inspection that is required and they can demand they completely remove the structure.

Here farms more than 20a do not need a building permit but they do require a State registered engineer seal on the plans. The County Assesor will then measure the building for tax assesment.

Another concern is wheather the the sub-contractors got paid. If the people screwed the County they will usually screw everyone else.

During our recent new "private" commuinty well construction the State Water Dept changed there mind and required us to get a engineer approval of the buried water lines. That cost us $7,000 after the fact. Probably due to a guy with a large mouth working on the project.

You can click on the link below to see a satellite view of most homes. Our County uses this to track new upgrades on property. Pay close attention to the dates on the image as you zoom in/out.

T_Bone

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rockyhawaii

05-09-2005 21:41:23




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 Re: HOUSE ADDITIONS PERMIT in reply to SMark, 05-09-2005 13:58:36  
I bought a house with unpermitted additiions and somehow it got approved, but I was using an agent. Now I'm trying to sell it but that dog won't hunt. If you find a solution, please post it because I'm in the same boat.



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Hermit

05-09-2005 18:40:42




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 Re: HOUSE ADDITIONS PERMIT in reply to SMark, 05-09-2005 13:58:36  
You could have problems coming and going. If the local building inspector or other official notices these buildings, they could require you to obtain a permit. Why-so the government gets its permit money. Normally, the building inspector will send a copy of the permit to the local land assessor. He or she is the one who tracks what's on your land, land classification and assessed value. And when the assessor identifies new permanent structures on your land he will increase assessed value. Why-so the government can tax you more. Also, your local government may have a procedure to visually re-assess all property every 10 years or so. So you could be found out when the property is re-assessed. If you know something is wrong with the legal status of the property, I believe it would be best to have the current owner fix it first. That way you don't have to worry. Otherwise, buyer beware.

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Bill Drew

05-09-2005 20:26:22




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 Re: HOUSE ADDITIONS PERMIT in reply to Hermit, 05-09-2005 18:40:42  
The assessor is the one who will have the "current" size of the house on file - for tax purposes. Talk to the owner and ask him to straigten it out if there is a difference - if he balks or gives you some sort of line, probably good to walk away. Who knows what else is funny about the deal.

Likely to be easy to fix with a bit of money: permit fees, inspection fees, and back taxes. You want the seller to pay, not you. Or at least know what it will cost and figure that into your offer.

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JJBUTSON

05-09-2005 16:37:16




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 Re: HOUSE ADDITIONS PERMIT in reply to SMark, 05-09-2005 13:58:36  
It would depend alot on where you are at as far as the addition goes. I know some zoning in rural farm land don't need permits unless a new house is being built. I put an addition on 8 years ago 18x20 and didn't need permit. So basically now I could tear the rest down and built all new. Because it basically is an add on. I had land contract 10 years ago and there is forms with county and title ins. specifically for land contracts. Besides if you didn't build add. and you buy based on clear title should be left alone. I would say if you like it go for it they will not make you tear it down. You can always plead stupid ONCE. The builder would probably be responsible for the fine and more than likely a small one. Good luck.

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