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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Cistern question

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Jay87T

05-07-2005 15:14:52




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Im building a new house, and just droped in a 2000 gallon concrete cistern the guy thats doing the septic system and cistern said, I should put like 500 gallons in it just incase it rains our, It may float if empty.... do you think this would be true?
I got into the debate with my father who was present at the time, also do you think the cistern was dropped into a lake would it float?




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Leland

05-09-2005 18:07:25




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to Jay87T, 05-07-2005 15:14:52  
i would add a little more than 500 gals I have personaly watched a new septic tank a 1500 gal one pop right up out of the ground after a 4" rain and pour water around it to settle dirt to help hold it down



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lucasss

05-09-2005 06:13:00




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to Jay87T, 05-07-2005 15:14:52  
this is an interesting topic.. got me to thinking if there is a chance for it to float years down the road when it goes dry... lucas



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MAC,IL

05-09-2005 06:24:33




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to lucasss, 05-09-2005 06:13:00  
If a guy is concerned about that part, dump a few ton of fill sand in it.



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evielboweviel

05-08-2005 05:37:04




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to Jay87T, 05-07-2005 15:14:52  
if that is a standard two piece cistern seal the joint with silicone caulk for concrete. water plug will not work as the sides will flex enough to break the joint and water will leak out.
Put a good filter in the incoming water line
Ron



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Scott Green

05-08-2005 04:21:14




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to Jay87T, 05-07-2005 15:14:52  
Yes , the tank can float. I've been around many construction sites. Seen new septic tanks float up out of the ground. Yes , put water in the tank.



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T_Bone

05-07-2005 21:14:03




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to Jay87T, 05-07-2005 15:14:52  
Hi Jay,

Yep I agree a floater easy.

A 6ft x 8ft x 6ft with 4" wall thickness empty concrete tank will float at 3.08ft of depth in fresh water and 2.94ft in salt water.

Fresh water weighs about 65lb/cf, salt water 68lb/cf, and a cistern with the above deinsions weighs about 9600lbs so 65 x (6x8x1=48)48= 3120lbs 9600/3120=3.08ft depth in fresh water.

Add water into the cistern and/or bury the cistern with 2ft of earth then we can't float the cistern while in the gound.

It's all in the cubic foot displacement of the tank. With the correct shape and the tank can't float when 2/3 full of water or buried.

T_Bone

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MarkB_MI

05-07-2005 19:15:17




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to Jay87T, 05-07-2005 15:14:52  
Just in case there's still any doubt...



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Maine Fordson

05-09-2005 09:31:43




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 Re: Concrete Canoes in reply to MarkB_MI, 05-07-2005 19:15:17  
Here in Maine we have a 16-mile canoe race every spring, down the Kenduskeag River. Some pretty good stretches of whitewater, too. The concrete canoes do OK, until they get to Six-Mile Falls, where they often strike rocks and snap in two, dumping their occupants unceremoniously into the frigid waters.



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JL Sargent

05-07-2005 18:42:36




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to Jay87T, 05-07-2005 15:14:52  
No question about it, it will float. Now, how are you setting up your cistern? Water off the roof feeding it? What type roofing material? What uses for the water? I ask because my water bill is rediculous. $75 a month and no sewer for 3 people. Im drilling a well or something.



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Jay87T

05-08-2005 05:49:57




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to JL Sargent, 05-07-2005 18:42:36  
its for driking water I live in the country and we have no city water, so the cistern water is trucked in 2000 gallons, costs 30.00 Canadian dollars a truck load of water, lasts clost to a month 3 people.



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RWK in WI

05-07-2005 18:02:49




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to Jay87T, 05-07-2005 15:14:52  
Yes, it will float or at least rise enough to break the lines if the pit it was installed in gets enough runoff. The pit is filled with unsolid soil so it will take water faster than the surrounding area.
Back in the 60s I saw unfilled underground steel tanks at a service station float up though 8" of concrete complete with rebar. What a mess to clean up and reset.



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Davis In SC

05-07-2005 17:46:21




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to Jay87T, 05-07-2005 15:14:52  
Years ago, a guy at Lake Hartwell (SC/Ga line) was building a concrete boat, not sure if he ever finished it.....



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MAC, IL

05-07-2005 16:41:36




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to Jay87T, 05-07-2005 15:14:52  
An aircraft carrier floats. No, I watched some hot shot engineers and const. co set a very large collection basin in a new sewage plant. Probably 75ft across and 30 ft deep. Walls were about 18" solid concrete. I told the guys, hey if it comes a good rain, it will float. Engineer asked where I got my degree? Well lo and behold, that nite it came a gully washer. And now you know the rest of the story. What a mess trying to re-level that basin.

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Galen

05-08-2005 17:10:47




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to MAC, IL, 05-07-2005 16:41:36  
Yup - them engineers know everything! Most of them aren't worth the paper their diploma is written on!



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buickanddeere

05-08-2005 22:12:37




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to Galen, 05-08-2005 17:10:47  
As a whole, engineers are not very bright. There are however on average smarter/better educated than those people who can not earn a degree. Care to drive across a new bridge, ride an elevator or fly in an airplane? That was designed by someone who struggled to or didn't even graduate from grade 12.



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Galen

05-09-2005 05:25:22




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to buickanddeere, 05-08-2005 22:12:37  
Actually - we've all probably driven over older or county bridges that weren't designed by engineers. Anyway - enough about my distaste for engineers (sometimes I wonder why I went to college to get that piece of scrap paper!)



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old

05-07-2005 16:32:36




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to Jay87T, 05-07-2005 15:14:52  
Yep you need to put water in both, a Septic tank can also float.



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Redmud

05-07-2005 15:25:43




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 Re: Cistern question in reply to Jay87T, 05-07-2005 15:14:52  
It's the same with a swimming pool or a battle ship, if it has water under it and non in it, it will float. Same with the cistern.



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