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welding thin 14 gauge metal

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chuckinnc

05-05-2005 18:55:03




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I bought a steel building with 14 ga. steel studs, i need to weld some cross braces and other pieces for various things. I have a 225 amp
AC stick welder. Can i weld this thin metal or do i need a wire welder?




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Tim...Ok

05-09-2005 12:52:01




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to chuckinnc, 05-05-2005 18:55:03  
Everybody reacts to it differently,20 year old kid I knew a couple years ago spent the day at work welding galvanized,late in the day felt ill so he headed home,didn't make it home to his new wife and 6 month old baby girl,found dead in his truck..cause of death,reaction to welding galvanized...be careful



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T_Bone

05-06-2005 16:56:48




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to chuckinnc, 05-05-2005 18:55:03  
Hi Chuck,

All the welding processes works well welding Sheet Metal, under 10ga (1/8") and down too about 16ga (1/16"), Oxy/Acet, Mig, Tig, carbon arc and stick.

Which welding process is best suited for an application is determined by gauge, joint design, joint preparation, electrode type and technique. With this is mind it take a book written on the subject to cover all the possibility's for a given job so we'll only deal with the task at hand.

14ga is approx .0745 thick average for carbon steel. The thickenss can vary from .0645 to .083 depending on the mfg and metal type to be with-in industry accepted standards.

6011 3/32" using AC is a good choice providing you keep a tight joint fit-up and use the back-step welding techinque.

6010 3/32" DCEN, DCEP or AC for galvanized SM, DCEP for mild steel SM, AC only if you don't have DC, again using the back-step technique.

6013, 7018, 7014, 7024 is a very poor choice as the flux is too heavy for the welding techinque required on SM.

The back-step techinque (welding from left to right) is where you deposit the weld puddle then quickly move out of the weld puddle to the right 2 rod diameters then return to the weld puddle for another weld deposit, thus repeating until a smooth bead is layed in.

What this does is allow for the molten metal to slightly cool before more metal is deposited thus a cooler weld is achived that helps limit warpage.

On a SM lap joint, to help control warpage, tack weld every 1-1/2" using 6010 3/32" at 20amps higher than normal welding amps. Skip weld vertical down if possible.

On a SM Butt joint tack weld every 1-1/2" leaving a root opening equal too 1/2 of the base metal thickness (for joint shrinkage) and use a chill block on the back side while skip welding vertical down.

A 1/2" standing seam joint is the best overall joint design for SM. Turn 1/2" of metal vertical on both sides of the joint then clamp the standing seams together, then tack weld, then weld.

You must skip weld, about 3" long then skip 14", most SM reguardless of joint design or welding process used or techique applied, to keep base metal warpage to a minimum.

Were having alot of wild fires here about 10 miles from the house and I really can't consentrate so I will finish this at a latter time but this should get you started.

T_Bone

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Ed1

05-06-2005 06:37:38




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to chuckinnc, 05-05-2005 18:55:03  
I don't think your going to get good results welding thin galv metal with a stick welder. I'd bolt or screw to the studs. If your heart is set on welding I think I'd use a MIG, oxy-ac., or tig welding process. The zinc will make it difficult and you'll have to paint the area afterwards.

Ultrasonic would be a good choice - just not sure where I'd get a unit big enough from or if it's even made. Did see someone weld two pieces of tin foil together and then weld that to a piece of glass. Cool stuff !


Allways knew zinc smoke was bad but didn't know of the milk trick. You learn something new every day - anyone know why milk actualy helps? Inquiring minds want to know?

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WiscTom

05-06-2005 06:00:41




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to chuckinnc, 05-05-2005 18:55:03  
You might also consider screwing or bolting to achieve the connections you need. Sometimes, mechanical fasteners just work better than welding.



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dr.sportster

05-06-2005 07:10:28




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to WiscTom, 05-06-2005 06:00:41  
You are right.An Ironworker[skilled structual welder]would use a 110 volt screw gun,1/4" screws on this not welding.Each weld location will leave a rust prone heat spot.



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msb

05-05-2005 19:01:36




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to chuckinnc, 05-05-2005 18:55:03  
Sure.Buy the smallest 6013 rod you can find and set the amperage low.If you get 3/32" rod then start at 70 amps.Give it a try.You may want to boost the amps up a notch after welding a bit.Its also best to clean the metal first when welding thin stuff.A wire feed welder would be better or a DC welder would also be a better welder than a straight AC,but the AC can do the job.



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dr.sportster

05-05-2005 19:01:11




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to chuckinnc, 05-05-2005 18:55:03  
Fourteen gauge is about 1/16" thick.{just thinking out loud].You should be able to arc weld almost anything.Turn heat up not down and move fast.Its possible: smaller size rods,practice on some cut off scrap a little first.



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dr.sportster

05-05-2005 19:03:12




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to dr.sportster, 05-05-2005 19:01:11  
Stud are galvanized so avoid fumes and drink milk when done.No joke.



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Scott Green

05-06-2005 03:16:47




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to dr.sportster, 05-05-2005 19:03:12  
Yes , drink milk when welding galv metal. And lots of it. If not , you can be very , very sick.



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Dug

05-05-2005 21:13:50




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to dr.sportster, 05-05-2005 19:03:12  
Can you expand on the hazards of welding galvanized? And the milk suggestion?

Just curious,

Dug



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dr.sportster

05-06-2005 03:45:45




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to Dug, 05-05-2005 21:13:50  
Dug.Its because of the zinc burning off the steel is very toxic.A little wont kill you but you must ventilate the work area or prefferably be outdoors.You will still get a dose rising into your face when welding[although there are vacuum fans to be used].The milk nuetralizes some of the poisons you have ingested.A good demo of a welding fan thats pulls the fumes away is when the salesman puts a white hanky on the orfice and welds a little galvanized work.You wont beleive the look of the smoke that sticks to the hanky.It just gives a general sick feeling and milk helps somewhat.Welding galvanized is just a real bad[and toxic] stink.If you must do it around the farm try to be outside.

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david - OR

05-06-2005 10:29:20




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to dr.sportster, 05-06-2005 03:45:45  
Zinc is not "very toxic" in the same sense as chromium or lead or asbestos. It does not accumulate in the body. It is not a known carcinogen. Zinc is an essential nutrient and included in many multivitamin products.

Welding galvanized steel produces zinc oxide fumes. (Zinc oxide is the same stuff used in some lib balm and sunscreens). Inhaling excessive zinc oxide fumes can lead to "metal fume fever", which is the result of an overdose of elemental zinc and feels like a really bad case of the flu. While extremely unpleasant, and something to definitely avoid, it clears up on its own in a matter of 48 hours or so. There are no known long term toxic effects from a one-time zinc oxide inhalation. (Chronic occupational exposure can lead to forms of asthma and bronchitis.)

Drinking milk (or water) helps the kidneys to excrete the excess zinc from the bloodstream, thereby reducing the severity and duration of the fever episode.

All that aside, commercial builders that use steel studs use self-drilling screws, not welding, for fastening the pieces together.

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Bernie in MA

05-06-2005 16:47:57




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to david - OR, 05-06-2005 10:29:20  
I used to work on and build carwash equipment. The used stuff I worked on was most always galvanized and I tried to keep the fumes from getting into my helmet. When it did the first symptom was a mouthful of spit. Later would be muscle aches and later still, if you got enough of it, throwing up. I got to that point only once. As the saying goes, first you're afraid you're going to die and then you're afraid you won't. I never had any longlasting bad effects.

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T_Bone

05-07-2005 04:12:40




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to Bernie in MA, 05-06-2005 16:47:57  
There's several things that will help while welding galvanized metal.

Cut the tongue out of a leather boot (long cuff welding glove or buy some leather) then cut it too about 4" x 5" then use pop rivits and a 1/2" wide piece of thin SM, 24ga works, to attach the leather to the front bottom lip of your welding hood.

The leather does two things:
1) It keeps your skin in the V in your shirt neck line from getting UV burned and keeps dingle berries from going down the front of your shirt.

2) With turning your neck/hood at about a 10º angle while welding will cause the smoke to roll off your hood and not come into the inside of the hood. At the same time the leather helps seal the inside of the hood keeping the welding smoke to the outside.

Until you master the above technique use a shop vac with a 6" long metal hose extension to suck the smoke away from your welding zone. This keeps the end of plastic hose from melting from the welding heat.

Drinking a 1qt of milk 1/2hr before welding will greatly help with the zinc oxide fumes but is not as good as using the shop vac or a vacuum source. Fans blowing the smoke away do NOT help as much as a vacuum source. For some weldors you will need both the milk and vacuum as some people are very sensitive to zinc oxide gas.

Never make your wife planters out of galvanized metal as when she waters the plant the water and zinc off gas zinc oxide and kills the plants. Ask me how I know this! That was 35yrs ago and she still remines me of that as it killed every house plant she had, about 30 plants.

T_Bone

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rockyhawaii

05-05-2005 19:27:02




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 Re: welding thin 14 gauge metal in reply to dr.sportster, 05-05-2005 19:03:12  
I learned the hard way about galvanized metal. I got a good dose of fumes and it took a full year to recover. Never knew about drinking milk though, lol.



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