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Welding weave pattern

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Bill

01-08-2001 21:59:33




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Would like some suggestions on weld patterns for welding ac/dc 6013, 7014, and 6010 rods. Most of the welding will be flat with some vertical and little overhead. With some of these contact rods it will be interesting to see what different methods of weave if any are used.

Thanks, Bill




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Joe Evans

01-09-2001 19:56:13




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 Re: welding weave pattern in reply to Bill, 01-08-2001 21:59:33  
Bill: Almost always our weldors will root pass CS pipe with E6010 using the stringer method then fill with E7018 stringer method. Generally the cover pass gets the weave pattern for appearance a "nickel wide and a dime high" as they say. But when the guys test out it's stringer all the way. I've seen gorqeous weave weld-outs fail x-ray and butt-ugly stringer weld-outs (as compared to the weave) pass time and time again.

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Steve U.S. Alloys

01-09-2001 13:52:10




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 Re: welding weave pattern in reply to Bill, 01-08-2001 21:59:33  
There are four different patterns that I am aware of for weave beads in the flat position. The box weave, zig zag, crescent, and figure 8.

The decision to weave or use stringer beads is based on the type of metal and the type of joint. Stringer beads are recommended for root passes on steel as an example. Stringers are also the rule for hardfacing using the SMAW process. You are generally better off using one wide bead rather than several narrow ones when joining.

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Bill

01-09-2001 11:05:13




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 Re: welding weave pattern in reply to Bill, 01-08-2001 21:59:33  
Probably best to use stringers, I can't remember how many "Golden Arms" I sent back to the hall when they busted out on a welding test.

Also, remember that 7018 is called Lo-Hi because of the Hydrogen content, these rods must be kept dry. Either sealed in their factory container or heated well above ambient (most codes call for 350F for at least 4 hours, and you probably know not to use your kitchen oven)

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T_Bone

01-09-2001 16:58:28




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 Re: Re: welding weave pattern in reply to Bill, 01-09-2001 11:05:13  
Hi Bill, It's 250 degrees for 4hrs and has to be heated whether sealed or not before using according to AWS.

You can make a rod oven the size of 4, 50lb rod containers, out of sheet metal, line with 1" insulation fiberglass board, and use a 100w light bulb as a heater with a thermostat. Made many of them when I worked for the cheap contractors.

T_Bone



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Fred OH

01-09-2001 10:40:48




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 Re: welding weave pattern in reply to Bill, 01-08-2001 21:59:33  
Try them! Take two pieces of flatiron and weld them together, one with a weave and one with a drag and no weave. Then put them in a vice and take a hammer and break them. See which one works best for you. Remember the results! Use the weak one for that brother in law that you don't like. (grin) L8R----Fred OH



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T_Bone

01-09-2001 03:47:08




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 Re: welding weave pattern in reply to Bill, 01-08-2001 21:59:33  
Hi Bill, 7018 is the best for all position welding with 6010 following. Weld hot and keep a short arc length. Weave is to be no more than 8 times rod diameter or slag inclusions will result for not burning the flux out of the weld bead because it has cooled to much.

T_Bone



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bob

01-09-2001 11:21:55




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 Re: Re: welding weave pattern in reply to T_Bone, 01-09-2001 03:47:08  
Tbone are you sure you put right weave rate i don,t want to argue but it seems higher than i was taught but can,t remember for sure but twice rod thickness rings a bell but probably wrong



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T_Bone

01-09-2001 16:47:51




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 Re: Re: Re: welding weave pattern in reply to bob, 01-09-2001 11:21:55  
Hi Bob, Yes that is correct according to when I took my AWS Certified Weld Inspector(CWI) test to D1.1. I last recertified in 1994 and it hadn't changed as of that date. Thats also why I suggested welding with a close hot arc as with 7018 it starts to cool fairly quick.

My first certified welding test out of 36 tests was a open root 1" plate test with 7018 all the way, yes thats correct 7018 open root. The cover pass was spec'd stringer bead but perfered was a weave, so another words no weave, no pass.

My 2nd Certified welding test was a 6G pipe test, pipe weld at a 45 degree angle with a 6" restrictor ring within 1" of the edge of weld and top side of the weld, sch40, 7018, open root but root could be 6010, preferd weave as a cover pass.

My 3rd Certified test was a Tig, 10" sch:10 SS beer pipe, 5G, "one pass" with 100% penatration with the inside bead appearing the same as the outside bead with a maxmium of 1/2" of a smaller inside bead as long as it was 100% penatration.

I thought these tests would be of interest since they sure was not an common certified welding tests!

T_Bone

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Fred OH

01-11-2001 11:23:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: welding weave pattern in reply to T_Bone, 01-09-2001 16:47:51  
Yep... Love the sound of a TIG in the morning...You remember the first time that you welded without gloves on or a short sleeve shirt because it was just a small job? Or how about if it was a long job and you didn't have a long fronted hood on? You remember that pretty little pink vee at the top of your shirt that you couldn't touch with a marshmallow? These things have a way of getting your attention-huh? BTDTKB L8R----Fred OH

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T_Bone

01-12-2001 11:50:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: welding weave pattern in reply to Fred OH, 01-11-2001 11:23:47  
Hi Fred, yup I do! but I only did them once as it didn't take me long to learn! hehe I always wore long sleaves and tried a couple of times without gloves but that nice jolt you got when you stuck the tungsten to the rod and then the metal at the same time was too much fun!

I did however use a piece of glove leather attached to my hood neck just because it looked great on the other guys hood but then found out what it was really for when I broke my hood and had to use one without it.

Ahh! Good times! Sure do miss them now.

T_Bone

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mike

01-09-2001 17:23:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: welding weave pattern in reply to T_Bone, 01-09-2001 16:47:51  
message to tbone i read your coments with great intrest but this time i think you are wrong t bone i rember at weld school weave not more than 3 times the weld rod with i am also certifid welder but in real life i can honestly tell you that i have weaved a lot wider than that to ger the job done



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T_Bone

01-10-2001 21:41:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: welding weave pattern in reply to mike , 01-09-2001 17:23:53  
Hi Mike, please read my last post to Bob and that should explain my thoughts. If you have access to a AWS code book, I will look up the code section and give you the page number.

T_Bone



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bob

01-10-2001 04:30:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: welding weave pattern in reply to mike , 01-09-2001 17:23:53  
are we talking weave as in the welding pass or weaveing as in cover pass in power plant we would weave like T BONE says but not as wide in welding pattern never heard of tests like T BONES but different strokes for different folks Alaways thought every thing was standard but it differs because of all the different applications



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T_Bone

01-10-2001 11:45:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: welding weave pattern in reply to bob, 01-10-2001 04:30:21  
Hi Bob, the welding tests I was refering to was for a specific Company (Coors) some 30yrs ago when AWS was struggling to get weld standards. At that time most larger companys employed their own weld engineers that spec'd welding procedures, tests and weldments. Around the late 70's during the big nuclear power plant rush, AWS finally was reconized as the gru on welding and standards were being enforced hence the push for Certified Welding Inspectors (CWI's). AWS/CWI was responsiable for giving weld tests to certifiy welders, weldment field inspection, and the dreaded documentation of such.

The CWI certification test is and was a real PITA to pass taking 8hrs to complete that covered all all welding procedures, weld testing (x-ray, magparticle, dye penterant, ultrasonic) and the entire D1.1 code book. For an example at the time I took my test there was approx. 500 CWI's and three Boeing welding engineers in my test class that failed with me passing by 3 questions on 1/3 of the test. I felt very fortunate that I did pass.

As to your questions on the weave pass, a weave can be put in on any weldment by a welder with only the restriction of no more than 8 times the rod diameter for a weave pass. During welder certification tests I would inspect the root pass and the cover pass and nothing inbetween as that was tested after through Nondestructive testing (NDT, ie; x-ray etc) or a bend test. The cover and root pass was inspected for undercutting or any other abnormal condition, another words the "look" fail.

However there is a advantage to the welder to pass a weld certification test using nothing but stringer beads.

T_Bone

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bob

01-10-2001 12:07:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: welding weave pattern in reply to T_Bone, 01-10-2001 11:45:30  
thanks a bunch for your impute I agree as when i was told yhis we didn,t haveCWI and bondafided test untill the 70,s iguess i was using old knowledge instesd of getting updated but i let welders worry about their end and i,d worry on my end thanks a bunch now i,m updated untill next question bob



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T_Bone

01-11-2001 02:32:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: welding weave pattern in reply to bob, 01-10-2001 12:07:26  
Hi Bob, Glad I could help but it sure makes me think of how old I am. hehe

The most impressive test I ever saw was a pipefitter taking a 1/2" plate, 7018, root backer, weld test. This guy did the vertical in ONE pass and the plate was dull cherry red when he was finished. The cover was perfect if I ever saw perfect. He did a zig-zag weave all the way up. I always thought I welded hot until I seen this one. And he was pushing retirement age.

T_Bone

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Ray,IN

01-13-2001 21:04:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: welding weave pattern in reply to T_Bone, 01-11-2001 02:32:29  
I once witnessed a navy certified welder showing off. He won $300 by welding two cigerette pack liners together with a Mig welder, back in 1969 at the Westinghouse plant we worked in. I wouldn't have belived it otherwise, I lost $20,but the show was worth it.



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bob

01-11-2001 10:43:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: welding weave pattern in reply to T_Bone, 01-11-2001 02:32:29  
hay T BONE that reminds me of an old ironworker having his head turned away in helmet cigarette hanging out of his mouth and welding 20 ft in the air WE asked how he could get by like that and they said he knew direction he was going and just listened to sound of weld he knew what he was doing as welds are still in place and not cracked or bad that a journeyman poor olld guys eyes needed a rest

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