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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Offshore relocation of tool producers. some insid

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under cover

04-30-2005 18:46:46




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I have a good friend who was part of the "corprate" team that has started shipping stanley's hand tools to china and tiwan. They also produce "Husky". There market research told them it wasnt as important as they thought that the husky line be USA. I learned this when I warrantied some husky tools recently. I called him up to ask "whats up". He also said even some proto is going offshore. He was very candid and said he suggested aginst all this, But being the only one who actually uses tools, was over-ruled. The good news is he said the offshore stuff is "at least as well made, often better" than its most recent usa standards. He also mentoned that the proto and husky combo wrentches came off the same presses before the recent offshore, Only the proto used slightly better steel. Just a little bland inside info for you fellas.

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John T Horner

05-05-2005 07:43:01




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 Re: Offshore relocation of tool producers. some i in reply to under cover, 04-30-2005 18:46:46  
"offshore stuff is "at least as well made, often better" than its most recent usa standards"

I've noticed the same trend in many manufactured products from major name brands. Often the last years of US manufactured product are of ever lower quality as attempts are made to lower production costs, then when subcontracted offshore product kicks in the specs are often higher.

John



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lucasss

05-03-2005 13:05:47




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 Re: Offshore relocation of tool producers. some i in reply to under cover, 04-30-2005 18:46:46  
ive been wondering what would happen if we got in a arguement with china ,,like say over them backin n korea doing something dangerous or stupid... if it went to a war,, china would have most of the manufacturing base,,,, and we would not be able to get items from there . .... also, what is china doing with all the money they are making off the factories there. .. i know they finance our national debt. lucas

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BobPA

05-01-2005 15:52:02




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 Re: Offshore relocation of tool producers. some i in reply to under cover, 04-30-2005 18:46:46  
I bought my Husky tools from Home Depot when they were made in USA. Since the change to import tools I won't buy anymore. I just hope my ratchets don't break because I won't replace them with junk.



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Robert Smith

05-01-2005 09:25:18




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 Re: Offshore relocation of tool producers. some i in reply to under cover, 04-30-2005 18:46:46  
Hey guys in case you haven't noticed it's darn hard to buy anything that is truly made in the USA!
It is a global market! there is not hardly a single thing that is entirely made in the USA,
Take a good look at anything that is built in the US and your going to find parts and peices that are build offshore! think about it Bousch builds injection pumps for american tractors, electronics for Harley motorcycles Isuzu diesel engines in Chevy trucks, not to mention Dodge is owned by Germany! you dont think there is not some outsourcing going on there! Heck the computor your using right now came from where? and don't say I'm using a IBM it's made in the USA! Better pull the case off and take a look inside if you don't belive me!
Trust me I'm an American steel worker so I know and have lived the crunch of what this market has done to all of us! I sometimes wonder If we were faced with a war like WWII if this country would have the industrial might to win it the way we did back then!
Americans are there own worst enemy sometimes!
So next time someone say's "Buy American" ask them where? In theory it's a great idea! one that I would love to completly stick by! But one that is all but impossible to follow these days!
We see more and more Russian and China steel coming thru our doors everyday! We supply processed stell parts to GM,Chrysler,Ford,Toyota and Harly Davidson! Guess where I lot of that steel came from! Bob

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Matt from CT

05-01-2005 08:08:54




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 Re: Offshore relocation of tool producers. some i in reply to under cover, 04-30-2005 18:46:46  
> have a good friend who was part of >the "corprate" team that has started shipping >stanley's hand tools to china and tiwan

Started? Did you mean to post this years ago?

It's been going on for many years -- at least since I started seeing them at Wal-Mart, probably much longer.



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Mikelasco

05-01-2005 08:47:33




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 Re: Offshore relocation of tool producers. some i in reply to Matt from CT, 05-01-2005 08:08:54  
I sell equipment to these producers of tools in the USA and overseas. There are a few companies trying to keep it in America, but some other big names that seem to try everything they can to ship the jobs over to China. The quality standard and process we were forced to follow in the USA was much higher than what the Chinese were allowed to do. That is truth, not sour grapes, because we sell the lines into China also.

I buy American whenever possible. I bought some foreign tools when I was young, but no more.

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dr.sportster

05-01-2005 07:43:50




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 Re: Offshore relocation of tool producers. some i in reply to under cover, 04-30-2005 18:46:46  
Buy American or you be eating a bowl of rice for dinner.



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CRUSADER

05-01-2005 06:27:10




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 Re: Offshore relocation of tool producers. some i in reply to under cover, 04-30-2005 18:46:46  
I also prefer to buy products made here in the USA rather than from off-shore. But I also have to look at and compare when I purchase tools. Justifying spending the money for a tool that I want versus buying one that will do the job and be a little more cost effective are coming into the picture a lot since I don't use them to make my living with. In the last two years I have purchased three power tools with the Sear's Craftsman brand. One was a cordless drill from the BX. I was surprised to say the least when I got home and found the "made in china" sticker on it. The router I bought was made here in the USA, but the recent skill saw I bought I once again found the "made in china" label on it. After the incident with china a few years ago...when I see there merchandise on our shelves for sale in the BX especially my blood pressure starts going up.

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Jim from PA

05-01-2005 05:34:09




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 Re: Offshore relocation of tool producers. some i in reply to under cover, 04-30-2005 18:46:46  
If the American consumer does't demand products made hear eventually the standard of living in this country will drop. Our economy can't survive forever on mainly service jobs. I can understand why a person with a lower income would shop more by price than loyalty to ones fellow countryman, but ultimately the fellow with the lower standard of living right now will have an even lower standard of living in years to come. We are facing an even greater division between the rich and poor and a large reason for this is a lack of good manufacturing jobs. It is good manufacturing jobs that made the middle class and I see that dissapearing. What a shame and we have no one to blame but ourselves. Jim

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Eddie in MI

04-30-2005 21:06:21




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 Hmmm.... in reply to under cover, 04-30-2005 18:46:46  
Why am I not suprised?

At the risk of being unpopular here, *I* have observed that some of the stuff coming out of Taiwan is really nice. Fit, finish, detail... I don't know about steel quality, but the tools that I have from Taiwan seem to work very well for me. Some of my Taiwanese 3/8" extensions are nicer than the Craftsmans that I have. Better chrome plate, knurled grips, etc.

That being said, I try to buy American just out of principle. Still, the US companies need to pay close attention. Keep the quality up, keep the pride, craftsmanship and warranty up... that'll keep the sales up.

My .02.
-Ed

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thinker

05-02-2005 20:05:52




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 Re: Hmmm.... in reply to Eddie in MI, 04-30-2005 21:06:21  
and this comes from that drives a corvette that cant get wet. see above post !!!!! !!



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dr.sportster

05-02-2005 19:40:45




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 Re: Hmmm.... in reply to Eddie in MI, 04-30-2005 21:06:21  
Try a grinder spark test.The heat treat may be correct and the machining perfect but the steel will be substandard.This will cause failure as much as poor machining and bad heat treat.There is a reason 4130 and 4340 cost more than 1020 steel.



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Galen

05-01-2005 04:51:14




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 Re: Hmmm.... in reply to Eddie in MI, 04-30-2005 21:06:21  
EXACTLY! Like to buy American, but can't afford to. Especially when you can get the same (or better) quality that is made offshore. 'Course, a lot of the stuff is made overseas, even if it is marked "Made in USA".



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Joe in Minnie

05-01-2005 06:50:27




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 Re: Hmmm.... in reply to Galen, 05-01-2005 04:51:14  
I always thought that things "stamped" made in the USA and was in fact NOT made in the USA was not legal and against the law..... So Japan named a City in Japan called it "USA" and then proceeded to stamp things USA, just for your information, have a good'n... Joe



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Coach James

05-01-2005 18:51:07




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 Urban legend I'm afraid. in reply to Joe in Minnie, 05-01-2005 06:50:27  
Link

I hate to see all our manufacturing go overseas, but it is not always the "company" that is fully to blame. The American steel industry was hurt by foreign competition but also by the unions that made it impossible for American steel makers to compete.

The Black and Decker plant here is closing, but at least some of those jobs are going to Tennessee.

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Coach James

05-01-2005 18:51:17




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 Urban legend I'm afraid. in reply to Joe in Minnie, 05-01-2005 06:50:27  
Link

I hate to see all our manufacturing go overseas, but it is not always the "company" that is fully to blame. The American steel industry was hurt by foreign competition but also by the unions that made it impossible for American steel makers to compete.

The Black and Decker plant here is closing, but at least some of those jobs are going to Tennessee.

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Coach James

05-01-2005 18:51:18




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 Urban legend I'm afraid. in reply to Joe in Minnie, 05-01-2005 06:50:27  
Link

I hate to see all our manufacturing go overseas, but it is not always the "company" that is fully to blame. The American steel industry was hurt by foreign competition but also by the unions that made it impossible for American steel makers to compete.

The Black and Decker plant here is closing, but at least some of those jobs are going to Tennessee.

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Coach James

05-01-2005 18:52:32




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 Not sure why it posted three times:( in reply to Coach James, 05-01-2005 18:51:18  
nm



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T_Bone

05-01-2005 19:56:31




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 Re: Not sure why it posted three times:( in reply to Coach James, 05-01-2005 18:52:32  
Because in the Union they teach you to push the button one time, not three, DUH!

T_Bone



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dr.sportster

05-02-2005 18:26:38




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 Re: Not sure why it posted three times:( in reply to T_Bone, 05-01-2005 19:56:31  
Why T bone Ive never seen you angered by a stupid comment.This is highly unusual I must say.Also hilarious.



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Ludwig

05-02-2005 10:36:32




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 Re: Not sure why it posted three times:( in reply to T_Bone, 05-01-2005 19:56:31  
Right because after you push the button you get your union required coffee break. ;)



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Joe in Minnie

05-02-2005 06:01:01




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 Re: Not sure why it posted three times:( in reply to T_Bone, 05-01-2005 19:56:31  
No so fast Quick's--draw, Some times Computers zig when you zag, that meaning some times they get bogged down and become a little slow, and the human poke'n the finger at it, just thinks a little faster.....



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Coach James

05-02-2005 12:12:37




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 Re: Not sure why it posted three times:( in reply to Joe in Minnie, 05-02-2005 06:01:01  
Could beI hit the enter key 3 times:) Perhaps I need to join a computer users union. The only thing my family members in the steel workers union learned was how to hamstring a company so everyone loses their jobs. A commodity business can"t compete when a guy pushing a broom is getting $20+ an hour with full medical and dental coverage for him and his family.

What was even worse was the union big wigs got golden parachutes from the foreign companies that bought out the steel makers while the factory workers lost their pensions. The workers lost their jobs and got shafted by the union bosses.

I was in Sears yesterday to get some router bits. Every box I picked up was marked "Made in China". Can you still buy American made router bits?

Interesting observation from looking for power tools recently. Dewalt, Skil and Black and Decker were all made in Mexico or Asia while Makita and Hitachi were made in the US. I bought the Hitachi and it works great.

A friend of mine runs a plant that makes ground rods here in North Carolina. Their business is doing excellent with each year doing better then the previous one since opening 6 years ago. A lot of their sales are to South America and Europe and even some to Asia so it is possible to compete under certain conditions.

What really tears me up is hearing someone complain about losing American manufacturing jobs then buying all their tools at Harbor Freight.

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Joe in Minnie

05-02-2005 13:13:52




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 Re: Not sure why it posted three times:( in reply to Coach James, 05-02-2005 12:12:37  
Your so very right about what you say, and from my perspective you can start with putting the blame on Bush, he started the NAPTH thing, and there went the jobs, as well as mine working for IBM who now make their computers in China..

IF we could all get together and start buying our "things" made ONLY in the United States, we may put a krimp to their idea giving the foreigners pocket money. I say, let them sell to their people and we sell to our people, that way our econony will grow at home where it belongs. If the foereigners want to make things for the USA, they can come over here and set up their business, and give us some jobs. my 2 cents worth.....

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MAC,IL

05-02-2005 16:41:00




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 Re: Not sure why it posted three times:( in reply to Joe in Minnie, 05-02-2005 13:13:52  
Seems maybe toyota has 8 plants now in the USA.
Grand daughters husband making 23 an hour.



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Coach James

05-02-2005 17:50:10




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 Re: Not sure why it posted three times:( in reply to MAC,IL, 05-02-2005 16:41:00  
Mac, my Dodge truck was made in Mexico and Great Britain while my dad's Nissan was made in Tennessee. And the Japanese automobile plants seem to be doing quite well here in the US. And $23/hour sure isn't bad.

Joe, if you're referring to NAFTA, that was signed by President Clinton. When the profit margin on computers, especially p.c's, became so low is when production began to move overseas.

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Joe in Minnie

05-03-2005 05:16:37




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 Re: Not sure why it posted three times:( in reply to Coach James, 05-02-2005 17:50:10  
Thanks James Coach, or is it the other way around, anyway, Just couldn't remember but I could sound it out, (NAFTA) If Clinton signed this thing, Bush sure could have turned it around like he does with other things.



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Crem

05-02-2005 19:44:50




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 Re: Not sure why it posted three times:( in reply to Coach James, 05-02-2005 17:50:10  
The Japanese should be doing well over here. From what I heard, a lot of the land and services were given to them plus the expenses of training. Then on the other end we have to pay unemployment and retraining for lesser jobs when our factories close down. In the not too distant future they will control our auto industry and will be dictating to us.



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