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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

I got educated on where machine tools are made

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Midwest redneck

04-26-2005 09:59:25




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I called the Clausing company in Michigan today. The sales guy, who has been doing this for years says the following. there are 3 types of machines. 1. the Cadillac. 2. the Chevy. 3. the Yugo. 1. Bridgeport is now a chevy...used to be a Cadillac because the castings are now made in Singapore. 2. Clausing Kondia, made in Spain, A Cadillac. 3. Clausing Atlas, Made in Taiwan, A chevy. 4. Wilton mill, made in Taiwan, a low end chevy. 5. Clausing Colchester, a cadillac. 6. Clausing Metosa, made in Spain, a chevy. 7. all Jet, all Acer, made in the orient, a Yugo. By paying $11,600 for a bridgeport you are paying for the name and the quality has gone down in the last 10 years or so. Clausing Atlas was the Atlas Lathe company before Clausing bought Atlas. Very informative.

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Mike M

04-27-2005 05:39:50




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 Re: I got educated on where machine tools are made in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-26-2005 09:59:25  
I work at a Cadillac dealer and let me tell you that they are some of the most expensive pieces of crap on the road today !!!



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Midwest redneck

04-27-2005 08:34:45




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 Re: I got educated on where machine tools are made in reply to Mike M, 04-27-2005 05:39:50  
That is what I am told....out of my price range and these older rich people think that it is a status symbol..... buy a John Deere tractor it will last longer.



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TP from Central PA

04-26-2005 18:29:25




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 Re: I got educated on where machine tools are made in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-26-2005 09:59:25  
That is B.S if you ask me..... ..We have mid-90"s Bridgeports and older ones as well. Only noticeable difference is the casting below the knee is flat on the new machines, instead of indented on the older ones. The rest is nearly identical.

Hardinge makes quality stuff..... ...You ask a Clausing Saleman who builds the best stuff it is obvious what they are going to say. Go ask a accomplished machinist with years of experience under his belt, Bet his list won"t be the same as yours.

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Midwest redneck

04-27-2005 02:11:07




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 Re: I got educated on where machine tools are made in reply to TP from Central PA, 04-26-2005 18:29:25  
The sales guy from Clausing made other comments of other machines too, like Haas, Hardinge and he liked both of these, Cadillacs in his opinions too. I my opinion the Hardinge toolroom lathe is the top of the line...super big $$$ too. One main comment he made and I agree with this is that the weight of the machine is important. The new bridgeports are 1950lbs. and the others of the same HP weigh more, Just comparing apples to apples here.

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Davis in SC

04-26-2005 15:39:45




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 Re: I got educated on where machine tools are made in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-26-2005 09:59:25  
I recently sold an older Kondia mill, It was an OK machine, but the ergonomics of it are not good. Perhaps I was just used to Bridgeports, but things were just not in the right place for efiicient use. Also, part prices are astronomical. I have always liked Colchester lathes, But I understand they are built all over the world in lots of 100 for the lowest bid now. That could just be a rumor, a sales rep from another company told me that. The Haas CNC machines are nice, it amazes me how they can build such nice machines in the USA for a reasonable price. Time will tell how Hardinge handles Bridgeport. Hardinge bought Hansvedt EDM a few years back, then shut it down, leaving owners with orphan machines. Fortunately, a company did take over service & parts for the Hansvedts....

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TP from Central PA

04-26-2005 18:34:09




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 Re: I got educated on where machine tools are made in reply to Davis in SC, 04-26-2005 15:39:45  
I agree with you about HAAS..... ..Everyone has the misconception that they are a POS until they run one. Great quality! Not to mention made in AMERICA! Personally, I think their control is awesome. Put I only have Bridgeports and Fanuc controls to compare it to.

The school just got a new Hansvedt sinker in this past fall. It was my understanding that Hardinge was making them? A few thinks have broke(Little items like coolant line and fitting) and the service has been excellant IMO.

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Jim from PA

04-30-2005 04:56:48




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 Re: I got educated on where machine tools are made in reply to TP from Central PA, 04-26-2005 18:34:09  
TP I agree with you that HAAS is a good mill for the money. I have a VF-3 that I have had for 10 years with very little problems. And you are right the controls on these machines are fantastic (best I have ever seen). I am going to buy a second one soon. I don't do heavy milling on them and don't think that they are well suited for hard heavy cutting, but are great for medium duty work. My definition of heavy milling work may be different from some though having spent 10 years running large boring mills. I don't think that the linear guide ways are well suited for heavy cuts. In my opinion if you are going to do heavy work you need box ways in both lathes and mills. I am trying to find a good USA made slant bed lathe with box ways. Can't seem to find one. I have a Hardinge GT27SP, great for smaller work and super precise. I also have an Okuma Cadet with box ways 12 years old and made in Charlotte NC. Would love to replace it with another Okuma, but now those same machines are made in Tiawan. I just refuse to buy a machine that is made outside of the USA.If HAAS made a lathe with box ways, I would buy it in a minute. By the way I too am from Central PA. Walker Machining in State College. Where are you located. Jim Walker

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Davis In SC

04-26-2005 19:53:39




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 Re: I got educated on where machine tools are made in reply to TP from Central PA, 04-26-2005 18:34:09  
TP, Haas machines are common here, they have a showroom /demo center not far from here. I have a Hurco CNC, bought it about 8 years ago, because, at the time it was the most operator-friendly. Hurco was the leader in conversational programming, now all the machines have it, or canned cycles... Glad to hear about a new Hansvedt, they are nice machines, mine has given good service. As far as the tool & die business goes.... I love the trade, but hate the business. It used to be fun & challenging, but now I spend more time trying to get paid than I do making chips...

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Easy

04-28-2005 00:16:56




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 Re: I got educated on where machine tools are made in reply to Davis In SC, 04-26-2005 19:53:39  
My father had his own shop in Dearborn for 24 years. He got out in the mid 80's. He recently got a visit from an old buddy that had a screw machine shop. He said his business just dissappeared. He lost jobs to overseas competitors who quoted less than what he needed for matierals and tooling. Soon, he didn't even get asked to quote. He ran a shop employing 12 people. In less than a year, it all went away. Easy.

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Midwest redneck

04-28-2005 02:03:12




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 Re: I got educated on where machine tools are made in reply to Easy, 04-28-2005 00:16:56  
I am assuming Dearborn Mi. right. I live about 1.5 hours from Dearborn. The work is out there if you are willing to look hard enough and be flexable. The shops I know of have many customers and not just a few. One good friend of mine has a shop only 5 main customers and he makes onesy twosys, plus he has two Devlieg Horizontal Boring mills and he can do big setups of one piece where some shops say, "if you dont want a hundred pieces then we aint doing it." It does *uck that a lot of work has gone overseas to the orient. These people work for nothing and make a semi-quality product.

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Bob - MI

04-26-2005 10:34:00




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 Re: I got educated on where machine tools are made in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-26-2005 09:59:25  
Yeah, all that heavy work is going overseas. Atlas lathes were in Kalamazoo, MI about 90 miles from my house. Amazing thing about machine tools, the plant that I work in uses Haas equipment and it"s made in Oxnard California. The main castings and cast in Rothbury, MI about 30 miles north of here. The pricing on these machines is pretty much unbeatable. We have 22 of the Haas VF-4 machines now with the last 7 less than 6 months old.

I have asked around about milling machines but haven"t gotten a hit on one yet.

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