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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Calling all machinists and toolmakers....

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Midwest redneck

04-24-2005 04:15:30




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I may be getting the go ahead from the General manager at my place of employment for me to work at home 10+hours per week making piece parts and fixtures. I am Super busy at work and have tons of work to do. I am looking at milling machines in the Production tool catalog. Here are my questions for you guys. 1. I would like to buy a good used Bridgeport mill, cost will be about $6,000. If I cant find a good bridgeport then I will buy a new milling machine. If I buy a new one which brands should I consider? 2. Wilton...engineered in the US but made in Taiwan (I think) (I like the horizontal bandsaw Wilton makes.) 3. Clausing....american company. Mills made overseas, in Korea or Spain or Taiwan..not sure where. Clausing lathes are good though. 4. Acer and Jet, From the orient, I had a used machinery dealer tell me to stay away from these two because they wear out quick. 5. Buy a new Bridgeport for $11,500 (ouch) 6. I will buy a new or used lathe when I save up more money but the lathe I want new is $12,500. What are your thoughts on these models mentioned? Thanks in advance.

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John Garner

04-24-2005 21:16:16




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 Worth considering . . . in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-24-2005 04:15:30  
Midwest --

A local-to-me (in California's "Silcon Valley") machinery repair-and-rebuild service company that my employer has worked with for close to 25 years stopped rebuilding Bridgeport mills a few years ago. They now sell new Sharp brand Taiwan-made "clones" of the BP for what is essentially the same money as rebuilding a worn machine.

The man who is now president of this company, the son of its founder, tells me that the Sharp machines are every bit as reliable and accurate as his rebuilds.

I don't have any first-hand experience with the Sharp machines, but I have represented my employer in a few purchases of metrological equipment from this particular service company and consider them to be "straight shooters", and I've learned to give their recommendations very serious consideration.

So, I think you should consider and evaluate the Sharp machine.

From personal experience -- which is very dated -- I've found that the Lagun knee mill is a very worthwhile alternative to a Bridgeport.

Finally, I'll mention my personal favorite light vertical mill, the Tree #2. A fantastic machine, but unless you stumble on a pristine machine at a giveaway price I can't recommend it. It's been many years since Tree #2s were made, and Tree Machine Company is passed into history. Parts and service are now too hard to come by to make a Tree #2 a practical purchase for a commercial enterprise.

John

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Don L C

04-24-2005 19:51:34




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-24-2005 04:15:30  
First thing you need to do s get you some legel advice....I don't know what to tell you but the place you are going to subcontract for will probly want short contracts with you....whitch means you could be gone in a year....another thing ,only tie up your capasity with 50% of any one company ...the other 50% divided amoung 3 or 4 smaller jobs....if the big job goes under you stand a chance being able to continue to stay in buesness....keep looking for other work...I worked for a big company...I made sure we didn't lead small subcontractors into more than 50% of our buesness....get legal help....good luck..... Don

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Davis In SC

04-24-2005 20:23:10




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Don L C, 04-24-2005 19:51:34  
Don, good point. Lots of big companies will abuse small vendors. I fought that for years, waiting 6 months for a check, if one ever even came. I am finally in good shape now, everything is paid for. I have several great customers, I do work for them for very reasonable rates. I treat them well, & they do the same for me. On the other hand, several large corporations try every trick in the book to cheat me. The only reason I even deal with them, is that we share a building with a molding company that does a lot of work for them. I tell those large corps that I am doing them a favor even doing their work, & take my time doing it. Little do they know, they are paying a big premium for being so hard to deal with. I spend as much time collecting , as the job took, so I figure that into the price, plus a PITA surcharge, LOL..... Funny thing is, they keep coming back. I understand some shops will not even waste the time to quote on their work...

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Don L C

04-24-2005 20:10:35




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Don L C, 04-24-2005 19:51:34  
Me again --- If the large co. you now work for needs your help bad enought....what we did was buy the equipment and sell it to the small co.for a DOLLAR. That way we did not show any ouner ship in the small co. At some point we either left it there or bought it back for a dollar.....ask your lawer about doing that....don



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Earl-IL

04-24-2005 16:16:33




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-24-2005 04:15:30  
Midwest redneck, Where in the midwest? Let me know I might have a contact for you on good used or new equipment. Earl In Illinois



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Midwest redneck

04-25-2005 02:16:23




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Earl-IL, 04-24-2005 16:16:33  
I am in Michigan, near Flint.



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Earl-IL

04-25-2005 07:19:12




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-25-2005 02:16:23  
Try this man for new or used www.lostcreekmachine.com (815) 434-5897 He is in the Chicago,Illinois area



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Johnski

04-24-2005 15:37:47




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-24-2005 04:15:30  
Check out the surplus record. They have a complete listing of new and used machine dealers nationwide with most having links to their web sites. www.surplusrecord.com HTH ;>)



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TP from Central PA

04-24-2005 13:00:14




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-24-2005 04:15:30  
I"d check out ebay..... Lots of nice used machines on there for decent prices that might be close to you. For what your doing I wouldn"t want nothing but a true "Bridgeport"..... .I have used Bridgeports, Jets, Victors, SuperMax, KBC, and Alients(SP?)...Also a "TREE" but they are a bit odd....The Bridgeports were older than the others and IMO still better than the others. The worst of the bunch were the Super"Craps", talk about junk.

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Jet9N

04-24-2005 11:17:39




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-24-2005 04:15:30  
We had a Hurco that was considered superior to the Bridgport standing next to it. I liked the Acer too, but it was not used fulltime, more on a maintenance shop basis. It was just as solid as a Bridgeport in my opinion.

Jet



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jsh

04-24-2005 10:27:20




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-24-2005 04:15:30  
i use a clausing mill every day and they are very good quality. they are made in spain



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Bob - MI

04-24-2005 08:19:28




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-24-2005 04:15:30  
It would sure seem that you should be able to find a good Bridgeport at a reasonable price with all the tool shops going out because of off-shore sourcing. I would contact your nearest machinery aution dealer and scrounge around with him to see if there"s someone he knows that would part with one of the old grey wonders. There have been three tool shops autioned off in a 40 mile radius of where I"m at in Western Michigan (Spring Lake) in the last 6 months and I am told that the prices have been pretty good. Local big player in our area is Meidema auctioneering. They have a website that has listings on it.

One thing that I did think of is getting your GM to fund the machine. You could give them a break on the hourly rate that you charge up to "X" amount of hours until you own the machine. Sounds like you are helping them out so hey, what the heck?

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Midwest redneck

04-24-2005 09:13:15




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Bob - MI, 04-24-2005 08:19:28  
I thought of asking my employer to fund the mill too, but then if that was the case then they would want it in their building. If I buy the milling machine then I can work for other companies too, and if I leave my employer then the machine is mine with no attachments from my old employer and it stays in my garage. I may have my employer fund the perishable tooling which will add up fast, since most of the work will be for them anyway. Where is Spring Lake?

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Bob - MI

04-24-2005 18:32:46




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-24-2005 09:13:15  
I live off the Grand River right where Spring Lake township meets Crockery township. Real nice spot back in the woods about 1/4 mile.



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Davis In SC

04-24-2005 05:12:59




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-24-2005 04:15:30  
I really think you would be best off with a new Bridgeport, if you are going to be in it for the long haul. Mine does not get a lot of use since I got a machining center, but it has been trouble free for 12 years. It was $13,300 in 1993. Short table, power feed, Accu-rite DRO & Chrome ways. In the past, I have had many more regrets about trying to buy something to just get by, than going ahead & buying first quality. I have not looked at any Bridgeports since Hardinge took over, but the price you mentioned, sounds good. It that the base price?

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Midwest redneck

04-24-2005 06:06:52




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Davis In SC, 04-24-2005 05:12:59  
Yes, that is the base price, no readout and no power feed on the table. That is the series 1 with the J head. Bridgeport is the standard and I use one at work, about 25 years old from what I am told. I have the write up in American machinist magazine of when Hardinge took over Bridgeport, they streamlined operations and brought it all to Elmirya NY, where Hardinge is located. I am also told from a tool shop vendor that many of the components of the Bridgeport are made in Spain. (not as bad as made in China or Taiwan)

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little baler

04-24-2005 10:03:27




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to Midwest redneck, 04-24-2005 06:06:52  
I am a toolmaker in a job shop that has all bridgeports, that are about 15 years old.they were nice when they are new, but now have there share of problems it seems, I recently purchased a Jet mill for my home shop, ( i am looking to get out on my own) with the large table, power feed, and mitutoyo readout, and variable speed. So far i have had no problems or complaints. I think that it probably depends on how well it is maintained and how many different operators use a machine. Good luck

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Midwest redneck

04-25-2005 15:03:19




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to little baler, 04-24-2005 10:03:27  
The Jet mill? Is that made in Taiwan or China? How long have you had it? Does it hold dimensions well? I have been told by several people that the stuff from the orient is Junk and dont waste your money.



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sawtooth

04-24-2005 12:17:27




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 Re: Calling all machinists and toolmakers.... in reply to little baler, 04-24-2005 10:03:27  
I agree- depends on who used it, how. When I first started in a large shop many years ago they had certain machines for rough hogging duty and kept good ones for precision work. That creates a problem when you only have one mill, you have to take it easier on rough jobs.



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