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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

jack post

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J.S. PA

03-29-2005 04:10:02




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Hi all, I live in a old farm house that is about square as nothing, I want to start jacking and leveling the 1st floor with post in the basment, I was going to buy a bunch of steel jacking post and start going to town with jacking till I saw the price, at Lowes the post are about $45.00 bucks each and I need about 15 or 20- do the math !
I would like to know if pressure treated 4x4's would hold up as jacking post or maybe some other type of wood or pole set up?
thanks John

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Don L C

03-31-2005 21:26:27




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 Re: jack post in reply to J.S. PA, 03-29-2005 04:10:02  
4" heavy wall steel pipe with 6"x6"x3/8" steel plates welded to both ends (don't need to be welded solid all the way around).You can make up several ahead of time.....It's hard to get them the correct length every time....use hard wood 6x6 spacers at the top to get them the right height.....Pour18"x18"x18" concreat footers with rebar....do not use rock or stone.....



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Mark - IN.

03-29-2005 18:47:08




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 Re: jack post in reply to J.S. PA, 03-29-2005 04:10:02  
Everything everyone has said is correct. 15 to 20 screw posts? That's a lot. My experience with screw posts is that you'll find them under supporting walls, since they have to support all of that weight as well, and get out of adjustment with settling. With that many, it sounds as though you're going to to go across the joists and try to push them up? 4x4s are not very sturdy, especially if trying to support the weight of whatever those much bigger, older joists are supporting. One story with unlevel floors? Multi-story with multiple unlevel floors? Place to start checking is the foundation, and work from there. Checked the joists near the foundation with a level and compared it to the ones towards the center of the house? All of them out of whack? As Rusty said, don't do anything too fast - days, weeks, months, maybe longer. Cracked plaster or drywall are easier to deal with than the sounds of popping or cracking timber that got out of shape slowly over years and decades. Take your time.

Mark

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hewbirt

03-29-2005 10:57:01




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 Re: jack post in reply to J.S. PA, 03-29-2005 04:10:02  
if you will need 15-20 jack posts, you might think about placing a few horizontal beams under your floor joists and use a lesser number of posts. this will cause the ceiling height in the basement to be lower but may be cost effective. be sure to have a stone pad under each post to spread the weight load on the floor. use a barn jack for the lifting as suggested in another post.

making even slow or gradual changes in the floor level of a house will probably crack plaster or drywall. so be prepared for a lot of repairs.

I did a little of this last year and I suggest getting it "close enough" and either "letting it go at that" or levelling the floors from the top with grinding and building up low areas before installing floor coverings. an old house will never be perfectly square, plumb or level. Most people call it "character"

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Dale in WV

03-29-2005 10:02:12




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 Re: jack post in reply to J.S. PA, 03-29-2005 04:10:02  
I have a neighbor who moved from the city to the country and now resides in a house built in the 1800's. He replaced the posts in the basement with wood in a manner to stabilize but not remove the sagging characteristics of his new home. Like I said, he moved from the city. My experience with the screw posts is (1) they hold things in place well (2) you can't jack with them as the effort it took to turn the screw was more than I could muster. I've seen folks changing the lay of an old barn -- they used hydraulic jacks and quickly braced it to where it should be. I wish you well on your project, but realize you're probably moving not just that floor, but the walls and ceiling and impacting on the rafters and roof. Thats a lot of weight!!

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RustyFarmall

03-29-2005 07:21:54




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 Re: jack post in reply to J.S. PA, 03-29-2005 04:10:02  
Whatever method you use be sure to go slowly. The floor joists and other timbers in your house have been settling over a period of many, many years. If you try to bring it all back to square in one attempt you will probably do some irrepairable damage. Do the leveling over a period of days, maybe even weeks.



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MAC,IL

03-29-2005 06:27:11




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 Re: jack post in reply to J.S. PA, 03-29-2005 04:10:02  
Since you have access from the basement, I think I would go 6x6, not 4x4. Lot of older houses with basements used these. Seen some well over 60-70 years old and have held up well.



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dr.sportster

03-29-2005 05:53:29




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 Re: jack post in reply to J.S. PA, 03-29-2005 04:10:02  
Hey JS,Im no engineer but according to my 1935 Mechanical Engineers Handbook that I got at the church sale as a kid wood has a higher saftey factor than steel or cast iron Dead load steel is 3 timber is 7 structures subject to shock ;Timber20 steel only 12.It appears wood timbers are safer than steel.Wood is whats used in coal mines to hold back the rock above also.Any notches etc.seriously weaken the wood and the steel.

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david - OR

03-29-2005 09:22:38




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 Re: jack post in reply to dr.sportster, 03-29-2005 05:53:29  
Leonhard Euler developed the theory of how to design a bearing column back in 1744. Do a yahoo search on "Euler buckling" and you will find plenty of educational material on the subject.

A 3 inch steel pipe is vastly stronger than a 4x4, when both are used as an unrestrained column. This is because the strength of an 8 foot long column is critically determined by buckling, not gross cross sectional area or compressive strength of the material. The buckling stress is a function of the stiffness of the material and the geometry of the section. In this, steel is much superior to wood, and a hollow pipe is much superior to a square. You can increase bearing strength still further by filling the pipe up with concrete, as with Lally columns.

It will do you no good to start jacking if the supports under the posts are inadequate. You also need to understand the loads placed on the various columns, and why the floors are uneven -- were the joists inadequate, have the sills rotted, is the foundation failing, etc.

Steel, copper, and other metals have doubled in price in the last couple of years because the Chinese making all those inexpensive goods sold at Walmart now want washing machines, cars, and other amentities. Wood has gone up as well, perhaps due to cheap mortgages in this country, but not as much. A 6x6 might be a reasonable alternative to a steel column for typical loads, but it would need a more thorough analysis.

Steel can be designed with a smaller safety factor than wood, because the material properties are better controlled during manufacture and the steel is more predictable. Wood does benefit from load duration factors not applicable to steel, but these do not apply to a simple bearing column.

The theory of engineering design of wood has advanced considerably since 1935. At the same time, wood quality and the allowable design values have gone down significantly. The genetically engineered monoculture plantations found in our "renewable resource" forests may grow a lot of wood really quickly, but at 3 growth rings per inch the lumber is nothing like the old growth typical of 1935. A 6x6 today uses practically the entire tree, and the likelyhood of a concealed knot or other defect weakening the post is fairly high, compared to quarter-sawn timbers of yore.

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