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Air piping

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Jerry Bliler

12-28-2000 21:22:54




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Should there be any problems with using 1/2 inch copper piping for shop air line? Water test rating has a pressure of over 150 psi but would like input on the safty side. There may be many good reasons why this should not be used. Thanks jb




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Greg

12-30-2000 15:52:06




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 Re: Air piping in reply to Jerry Bliler, 12-28-2000 21:22:54  
Another option could be the Kitec Multi-Purpose Comoposite Pressure Pipe. It's a composite pipe made of an aluminum tube laminated between interior and exterior layers of plastic. Kitec combines the strength of metal tubing with the longevity of plastic.

- Multi-purpose: hydronic heating, snow melt, water service, compressed air, industrial chemical lines and ground source pumps.

-Even water flow. Water quality unaffected.

-Approved by national codes.

-High impact strength, resists punctures and is impermeable.

-Can be installed in all weather conditions.

-Joints withstand pressure and temperature changes.

-Retains heat and resists condensation.

-Virtually maintenance free.

-Corrosion proof.

This is carried by TekSupply. 1-800-835-7877.

This looks like some of the same material some of the manufacturers are using in floor heat systems.

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Joe Evans

12-29-2000 22:30:58




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 Re: Air piping in reply to Jerry Bliler, 12-28-2000 21:22:54  
Go with hard copper pipe and wrot copper fittings. They will work just fine for your application. However, there are three grades of hard copper pipe available for use in pressure applications, and these grades refer to wall thicknesses. These grades are K,L, and M with K being the thickest and M the thinnest. "M" copper is what is typically found in common residential plumbing applications and is identified with an M marking on the outside with the producers name in red ink. L copper is identified with blue ink, and L is used in commercial and industrial applications usually for water service. K is color coded green and is used in very critical applications. One of our customers strictly specifies K copper with sil-fos (silver solder) joints on their oxygen piping. Oxygen piping requirements are very critical. L copper is what is used in refrigeration work and is generally called ACR (air conditioning and refrigeration) copper which has been cleaned and capped so that the refrigerant will not react with any residual oils. (This procedure has to be done for oxygen service also). T-Bone has correctly steered you to an L wall thickness for your air lines. Don't fool with the M. We don't need to get into soft copper or DWV at this point. Solder joints will work just fine if done correctly. Frankly, if you clean your pipe and fittings with plumbers cloth and fitting brushes and use flux, there is almost no way you can screw up a solder joint. Do not under any circumstances rely solely on the flux doing the cleaning for you. There's no reason to go to the expense and trouble of silver soldering.

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Shep

12-29-2000 21:14:10




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 Re: Air piping in reply to Jerry Bliler, 12-28-2000 21:22:54  
Jerry - In my new shop I had planned to use ONLY steel black iron pipe for the air lines as this is what I see in most commercial shops and in the VO-AG shops. This is also the recommendations from Alvin (see Shop Layout/Lessons Learned)post.

To all the rest of ya'll any benefit one over the other?
Shep



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Bus Driver

12-30-2000 11:07:50




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 Re: Re: Air piping in reply to Shep, 12-29-2000 21:14:10  
One of the reasons for the black iron pipe is that no one mistakes it for a water line. Galvanized pipe is not used for air because the galvanizing sometimes comes off in flakes- not good for air equipment. In your personal shop, mistaken identification is unlikely.



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T_Bone

12-30-2000 14:20:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Air piping in reply to Bus Driver, 12-30-2000 11:07:50  
Hi BD, Did you know they changed the code in about 1990/92 that they now allow galvanized pipe in gas fired systems. The new hot dip methods makes galvanized flaking not a concern any more. I have installed alot of commerical oxygen supply systems in copper and copper is preferred in critical air equipment as it stays cleaner longer.

T_Bone



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Joe Evans

12-30-2000 22:07:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Air piping in reply to T_Bone, 12-30-2000 14:20:19  
10-4



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CJ

12-29-2000 20:42:34




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 Re: Air piping in reply to Jerry Bliler, 12-28-2000 21:22:54  
copper works great! follow the advice you were give and you will think the same. Just do NOT use Plastic!!!



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Neal

12-29-2000 17:25:03




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 Re: Air piping in reply to Jerry Bliler, 12-28-2000 21:22:54  
I worked in a shop which had copper pipe for the air system, never had a leak. OSHA never complained about it and you know they look very hard to find anything to justify their jobs!



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robert hudson

12-29-2000 07:46:05




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 Re: Air piping in reply to Jerry Bliler, 12-28-2000 21:22:54  
Jerry, I'm not commenting on safety here and i am certainly not going to contradict T_Bone. i have a friend that uses 150 copper in his shop to run 95psi air. His problem was the soft solder joints blowing loose after some time. He silver soldered the joints and says he has had no problems since. i've got about 600' of the stuff myself and was wondering about using it for the same purpose.



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VaTom

12-29-2000 10:23:31




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 Re: Re: Air piping in reply to robert hudson, 12-29-2000 07:46:05  
Ditto Robert's comments about safety and contradictions but in my ignorance I used plumbing copper and soft solder six years ago. No problems to date running it at 120 psi. I don't imagine my 140 gal tank capacity has anything to do with it. Mine's a two stage Ingersoll that really puts out the air at lower psi's. And, if I may, a plug for Ingersoll Rand. They really back up their products with service around here.

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T_Bone

12-28-2000 22:10:26




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 Re: Air piping in reply to Jerry Bliler, 12-28-2000 21:22:54  
Hi Jerry, Only use rigid copper pipe and not from Mexico either, it says on the pipe. You don't have to use rigid but if you use soft copper it has to be refrigeration rated. I use it all the time in refrigeration at 300psi to 500psi. Make all you tee's take off at the top of the pipe and not at the bottom. You do want an expensive air line don't you! Clean both side of the copper, pipe & fittings, then solider. Leave a 6" stub below a hose connetctor tee, as a trap, and I like to use ball valves for water blow down and trash. Pitch all lines at 1/8" to the foot to the drain side. Most pipe and valves have a rating for W (water) or G(gas) stamped on them if there rated.

T_Bone

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Correction Jerry......T_Bone

12-29-2000 00:12:03




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 Re: Re: Air piping in reply to T_Bone, 12-28-2000 22:10:26  
Jerry, I just reread your post and you can't use the pipe rated for 150psi. You have to use the good copper pipe rated for refrigeration.

T_Bone



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