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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Generator advice?

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Nathan - Ga

03-11-2005 19:24:07




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I'm thinking about having a standby generator wired into the new house. Any particular brand that you folks like the best? What's an ideal size to run a total electric house? What about price and best place to purchase?




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Nathan - Ga Thanks!

03-13-2005 17:42:27




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 Re: Generator advice? in reply to Nathan - Ga, 03-11-2005 19:24:07  
Thanks for the thoughts. Sorry I didn't get back online sooner, had some unexpected things come up.

Dave is right, I should've been more specific. It's gotten where we have about 1 outage a year that last a few days and several that last 3 or more hours.

I don't need to run everything, mainly water, a few lights, TV, fridge, freezer, water heater and maybe heat. I can stagger like some suggested. I'll have a fireplace and probably have a couple propane wall heaters, so I'll have the propane tank.

I'd like one that cuts on automatically. If I go with propane, I don't think I want it doing a test run every week like some of them claim.

It will definately be installed by an electrician with a transfer switch.

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buickanddeere

03-12-2005 14:28:39




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 Re: Generator advice? in reply to Nathan - Ga, 03-11-2005 19:24:07  
The cheapest portable generators will often damage or trip off electronic circuits in high efficiency furaces. Where are you located, size of home, type of heating, size of electrical service, distance form neighbours? As for transfer switches. There are switches that replace the utility meter base box with a meter base box containing a transfer switch and plug for the generator. Reliance Electric and Sneider both make a 200 amp home distribution panel with a manual transfer switch built right in.

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TEN10TRADER

03-12-2005 07:51:24




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 Re: Generator advice? in reply to Nathan - Ga, 03-11-2005 19:24:07  
THE BEST WAY I FOUND-IS GO TO THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW GENERAC PORTABLE PRODUCTS .COM -- and take there GENERATOR WATTAGE GUIDE TEST. FILL IN THE BLANKS AND IT WILL TELL YOU WHAT YOU NEED.



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davefr

03-12-2005 07:05:20




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 Re: Generator advice? in reply to Nathan - Ga, 03-11-2005 19:24:07  
You really need to be more specific. Exactly what do you want to run and how automatic do you want it to be.

If you want completely automatic backup and want to run the entire house with things such as deep well pumps, electric heat, etc then you're talking 10's of thousands of dollars.

If you want to select a few critical circuits which you can stage manually and you're only concerned about a few hours every few years then a portable unit may be fine.

If you need to start induction motors it's essential to match the generator to the starting code for the motors. The starting code should be on the motors nameplate.

Like others have said, fuel storage is a major factor. A couple 5 gallon jugs of gas will probably give you a few hours a day for several days. You'll need a plan to keep the fuel fresh.

However if you want to run continuously for days at a time you better consider natural gas, propane, or diesel.

My generator is a Dayton 7200W powered by a Honda 13 HP gas engine. My main concern is getting water during an outage. (I have a 1.5 HP deep well pump). I stage all circuits manually so the pump gets exclusive use of the generator when it kicks on. Once the tanks are filled, I turn of the well circuit and the generator can run everything else but my electric heat. (maybe it could, but I just use the stove for heat).

Things are at there very worst during an outage. Unless you have a completely automatic system that has a weekly self test cycle, then you need to have periodic "practice outage" sessions.

Will you have fresh fuel? Will the unit start? (rebuilding a gummed up carburator in the middle of the night a 20 below zero with candle light isn't much fun). Can you get it to the house if everything is covered in ice?? (once I wasn't able to get my sliding barn doors open due to ice. Luckily the genrator fit thru the walk in door but just barely!!). Do you have the proper connections?? (you can easily kill yourself fumbling with a generator.)

I won't get into the backfeed debate!!

You might want to checkout www.grainger.com. They have lots of info on generators.

If money was no object, I'd sure like to have a portable Multiquip generator or a Kohler standby unit. You can stand right next to a Multiquip unit and have a normal conversation they are so quiet.

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buickanddeere

03-12-2005 06:44:52




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 Re: Generator advice? in reply to Nathan - Ga, 03-11-2005 19:24:07  
In town, country, have a tractor, natural gas supply to house, mechanical ability and electrical knowledge?



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Mark - IN.

03-12-2005 06:16:45




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 Re: Generator advice? in reply to Nathan - Ga, 03-11-2005 19:24:07  
I've got a 5KV Coleman, because I didn't go shopping around or anything. Have only had to use it once, and did the nessecities like refridge, lights, propane gas furnace blower motor, well pump. Certainly not a range or washing machine, maybe not even a microwave. Probably would melt if too many things come on at once. But gets me by.

A couple of years ago, one of the gas companies unveiled a battery pack/inverter for when electricity goes unregulated so that they can jump into the mix too. At first I scoffed at the idea, but I'm wondering if can be used as a reserve so long as can open the main back to the pole. Or if can float a charge to it when power from the pole is live.

There's a farmer down the road who still has and uses one of the windmill generators. That thing's been there for 20 years and still goes from time to time. I'm guessing that he has commercial power as primary because sometimes it just sets there not rotating, even in the wind. Other times... I've considered one, but kind've figure might be a lightning rod in storms - and it might not be.

Mark

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jdemaris

03-12-2005 06:13:24




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 Re: Generator advice? in reply to Nathan - Ga, 03-11-2005 19:24:07  
Fuel is the big issue. When power it out, you need fuel on hand, otherwise what good is the generator? Second to that is efficiency. Propane is the least efficient as compared to gas or diesel, but is the most stable for storage.
So, if you already have a large propane or heating oil tank - get a generator that will use it. I've always have 1000 gallons of heating oil here that I can use in my diesel tractors and PTO generator. I've also got a 500 gallon LP tank. If you don't have any stored fuel - you ought to consider it if you want a source of stand-by power. In that case, gasoline has the shortest storage life. Diesel can keep for years, and propane - even longer.

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Weirsdale George

03-12-2005 03:43:03




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 Re: Generator advice? in reply to Nathan - Ga, 03-11-2005 19:24:07  
Unless you have a very large fuel storage tank, you will need to cut back on your electrical usage. During the recent hurricanes here in Florida, I used over a half gallon an hour and I ran the generator only about 10 hours a day running the refrigerator, freezer, TV, microwave, water pump, etc. If you have a widespread power outage, the gas stations won't be pumping gas so resupply will be a problem for a long-term outage.

LP gas is probably the best way to go as you don't have to worry about the fuel supply going bad over time.

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Jake 2

03-12-2005 03:39:20




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 Re: Generator advice? in reply to Nathan - Ga, 03-11-2005 19:24:07  
If you're looking for an automatic start, full house system, you might well consider a 20 kw propane powered system. Should power most of what you'll use, short term, and propane doesn't get gummy. Several manufactures have good products.



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Gene Davis (Ga.)

03-11-2005 21:16:49




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 Re: Generator advice? in reply to Nathan - Ga, 03-11-2005 19:24:07  
When sizing a standby generator to power a house, you will have add up the amperage loads of each appliance, heater or what ever you intend to run. Be sure that you take in consideration the extra amperage needed to start motors wich can sometimes run as much as 3 times the running amperage, and then to be safe you need at least 20% bigger for the things you forgot to add to the list. An electric heat strip is sort of like a dead short, it will make the generator bellow when it kicks on to heat. I have an 8 kw unit for my house and having a gas furnace allows me to turn it up a little warmer on the thermostat,and then I shut down the electric heat pump to keep the heat strips from kicking on and overloading the generator. I can run my well pump, and most of what I need to get by with. I turn on the electric hot water heater after everything else is through running at night and let it heat up at night when the load demand is less and with careful managment and turning off what is not essential we made it through the ice storm well. The key to success here was staggering the load. I wish I had a diesel instead of a gas burner though. But I probably will keep this one. One other thing to take into consideration is that the advertised kw rating of most generators is the short term surge load and that the extended running load is usually about 10% less than the advertised amount. If you buy a gas or diesel unit they usually will produce the rated kw amount, but if you use LP gas there will be about a 10% drop in wattage produced and if you use natural gas for fuel there will be about 20% loss. These are the normal rule of thumb ratings. Gene Davis

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BobinOH

03-11-2005 20:14:33




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 Re: Generator advice? in reply to Nathan - Ga, 03-11-2005 19:24:07  
I have a Honda used hard for the past nine years now and have done nothing but two spark plugs and annual oil changes.



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