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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

completely OT to prove alcoholic

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wooly

03-09-2005 17:59:23




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My cousin was in an auto accident. More vechicle damage than personal injury. The guy that was driving was under the influence. Everyone says he is an alcoholic, and he denies the fact. Is there a test to prove he is an alcoholic? I know about the breath test and all that, but what about if he hasnt had a drink in a week, can he still be tested and prove to be an alcoholic??? Thanks for your help.

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wooly

03-10-2005 13:37:31




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to wooly, 03-09-2005 17:59:23  
I appreciate all the responses, but this guy wants to get a CDL to drive across country. We say he is an alcoholic and he says NO WAY. We want to prove he is a alcoholic. Is there a blood or urine test to prove our point????



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Davis In SC

03-10-2005 19:46:37




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to wooly, 03-10-2005 13:37:31  
Scary that he is going to get CDL..... But I see no way to stop it. However, I think the legal limit is only .04 for CDL drivers to get a DUI. & any detectable alcohol is good for a 24-hour out of service. Lets just hope he stays sober, or if he chooses to drink & drive, that he gets caught for DUI before he kills someone.



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Mark - IN.

03-10-2005 16:33:22




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to wooly, 03-10-2005 13:37:31  
True story. Back in the '70's, had a girlfriend and a buddy killed by a drunk trucker. The trucker had sat in a bar, with his semi pulled in on the side, and drank for hours, and got drunk as a skunk. When he left, backed his semi out across a highway (illegal), in a dense fog at an "S" curve. Her car came around the curve with no time to see it, and took the top of the car off. She was in a coma for a little over a week until she died. A friend in the front seat was able to duck for the most part, and got minor injuries. A friend in the back seat was killed outright. Two other friends in the backseat were able to duck for the most part and made it out with minor injuries. That was a bad time. Back then in Indiana, the law wouldn't permit drawing blood for suspected intoxicated drivers invloved in fatal accidents. I like to think that that's one of the reasons the law was changed. That trucker sure changed her family's, our friends, and my life forever. True story.

I joke about drinking, and may have a beer or two a year (my choice), but for the most part don't drink. Don't care who does, really don't, but drinking and driving don't mix. Really doesn't.

Mark

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Midwest redneck

03-10-2005 08:30:05




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to wooly, 03-09-2005 17:59:23  
I will say that if anyone HAS to have a drink then they are an alcoholic. I thank God that I never got hooked on it, I drink maybe 3 Mikes hard lemonades in a year, I never liked beer. But I heard a Pastor once say that when someone is hooked on a substance then the substance controls you and yet it is a liquid that you can dump out on the ground and comes in a can or bottle, or a pack of cigs.

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Rauville

03-10-2005 07:30:13




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to wooly, 03-09-2005 17:59:23  
I don't think you're going to stop anyone from diving if they have the desire to.
Case in point: Jerry Z. in Rapid City makes the news with 34 DWIs, and lifetime revocation of his driver's license, and he's still on the road!



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deanop

03-10-2005 07:02:23




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to wooly, 03-09-2005 17:59:23  
what about drivers under the influence of cell phone driving/book reading/etc????



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thurlow

03-10-2005 08:40:35




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to deanop, 03-10-2005 07:02:23  
Saw a statistic this week (I know, you can prove anything with statistics) that anyone talking on a cell phone while driving had the same impairment level as someone who was legally drunk.



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Ron in Nebr

03-10-2005 01:40:10




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to wooly, 03-09-2005 17:59:23  
If the guy was under the influence when the accident happened, what difference does it make one way or another about his long-term drinking habits? If he was tested and shown to be drunk when the wreck happened then that should be all they need to make a case. Only way the factor his possibly being an "alchoholic" should affect any court case is if he's already had previous D.W.I. offenses and could then be considered by law as a habitual offender.

If an alchoholic was at fault in an accident but was stone cold sober at the time, would that be cause for additonal penalty just because he was an alchoholic even though alcohol had no affect on his driving abilities at that point in time?

Under the Alchoholics Anonymous definition of an alchoholic- if you are one you'll always be one, doesn't matter if your last drink was an hour ago or fifty years ago.

Please don't think that I'm defending alchoholism or drunk driving here- I'm not. I've had first-hand experience with both in my past and I'd be the first person to say if the wreck was caused by the guy being drunk and driving then he's guilty and should pay the penalty. We all need to accept the responsibility of being held accountable for our actions. Whether the guy was drunk every day for the past twenty years or had had just drank for the first time in his life should make no difference- he was in the wrong and should not have been driving.

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dhermesc

03-10-2005 06:20:58




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to Ron in Nebr, 03-10-2005 01:40:10  
I agree with Ron on this one, if the guy was drunk when the accident occurred it will show on the breath test or the blood test, he'll be found at least partially at fault for the accident if not totally. Driving while drunk is against the law, driving while sober even if you are an alcoholic isn't.



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Ron in Nebr

03-10-2005 22:27:01




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to dhermesc, 03-10-2005 06:20:58  
Glad so many agree.

The tough thing about the original posters case is shown right here on this thread- being an "alcoholic" isn't really a set-in-stone affliction like being, say, a diabetic is. Ask ten different people what qualifies a person as an alcoholic and you'll get at least eight different answers. What some call an alcoholic others will term as an abuser. Some may call a guy who sits and watches tv most every night after work and drinks a 6 pack an alcoholic, even though he can go on a two week vacation and never touch a drop the whole time and not miss it. Others say that the alcoholic is defined by someone whos drinking has caused problems in their life, whether with work, family, health, law, or whatever. Yet other will tell you that it's only the guys you see stumbling down the alleys in the middle of the day that are alcoholics. It just isn't a "one size fits all" problem- it affects everyone differently.

And since someone brought up the statistic that cell phone users are just as dangerous as drunk drivers, I read someplace that fatigue- falling asleep at the wheel- causes WAY more accidents each year than drunk drivers do. But yet there's no law against that.

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Doc 2

03-10-2005 00:49:11




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to wooly, 03-09-2005 17:59:23  
I am a paramedic and deal with people with alcohol problems regularly. In the course of my daily work I do not determine if someone is an alcoholic. I do have some background info to use to help determine a persons status.

There is a difference between alcohol abuse and dependence. If a person starts at a normal emotional level, goes out and has a few too many with friends in the name of fun, gets home responsibly does not kick the dog, wakes up the am and shakes the cobwebs loose and can function without another drink, that is abuse.

Alcohol dependence is when a person starts out depressed, drinks to get to a normal emotional level has problems getting home or problems when arriving there, wakes up in the am and needs to drink to get to what most people consider normal. This is the person to be concerned about.

Hope this helps. Doc

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John A.

03-09-2005 19:59:23




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to wooly, 03-09-2005 17:59:23  
Wooly, Somewhere down the line I learned this rule -of-thumb, If my memorry serves me right it is 2or more beers or drinks/night OR 12 or more beers or drinks on the weekend technically constitute an Alcoholic. Hope this helps.
Later,
John A.
PS. I have a old friend of mine who is a "functional alcoholic" I know what one is.
He doesn't get shi#-faced drunk. He just keeps the "Buzz" going all day long. He goes through a 5th Each and Every Day! What a waste of a humanbeing. Yes he is in full denial, we are the ones who have a problem.
Later,
John A.

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dr.sportster

03-09-2005 18:31:20




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to wooly, 03-09-2005 17:59:23  
Yes both Snap-on and S-k make a special tool for that but you have to ram it down the guys throat and take readings for about two weeks.He might not agree to that.



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Pitch

03-09-2005 18:09:43




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to wooly, 03-09-2005 17:59:23  
What difference does it make if he is alcholic or not? If the police suspected alchol use they should have breathalized him. If he did'nt have a drink in a week he was sober and whether he his alcholic or not played no part in the accident. An addict is an addict for life be it alchol heroin or donuts. Their are addicts that have been sober for 50 years but clinically they are still addicts.



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JoeK

03-10-2005 01:26:28




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to Pitch, 03-09-2005 18:09:43  
An alcoholic is an addict.May never even get drunk,but"needs"to have his crutch regularily to exist.It's not about volume or type of alcohol.It's about "needing it" like any other addict.If you MUST have a beer and absolutely cannot do without it,say every evening without fail you MAY have a problem.If you CANNOT engage in something(fishing,ball game,fire dept meeting etc)without drinking you MAY have a problem.An addict,whatever kind,MUST have their "fix" to cope with their existance.I have no dislike of responsible drinkers,but have no time for addicts of any harmful substance and alcohol,like other substances,is responsible for millions of dollars in taxpayer and personal expense and tens of thousands of lives lost,damaged or shortened in our world.

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larry in tn

03-10-2005 05:53:06




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 Re: completely OT to prove alcoholic in reply to JoeK, 03-10-2005 01:26:28  
My son is an alcoholic as was my grandfather up until his death. I'm not able to express all the medical jargon that is used to explain why some people are addicted to alcohol while others are not. I have attended many meetings for people who are relatives of alcoholic's.(ALANON??)My son started as a teenager. He is now 42yrs old and has been sober for about 4 years. The general belief is that the addicted drinker/alcoholic's chemical make-up differs from normal in that the addition of alcohol creates an addiction that the rest of us don't experience if we drink. One drink and he is hooked. It will be that way for their entire life. A sober alcoholic is just as much in control as anyone else and a falling down drunk normal person is just as much out of control as a drunk alcoholic. So if the alcoholic in question was sober at the time of the accident in question the idea that his background caused the wreck is not valid.

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