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Welding and Electricity basics

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Neil

12-28-2000 06:13:54




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Dont know much about welding, but from the electrical side, a welder is nothing more then a stepdown transformer. It takes the input voltage and reduces it.
In doing so it allows for greater current to flow.
As a rule of thumb, you always extend the higher voltage/lower curent side of a transformer.
Since any loss in the cabling is related to the current, not the voltage.
That is why the supply side of the welder can use 10 or 8 guage, but the welding leads need to be 4, 2, or even 1 guage.
Obviously common sense needs to come into play. You dont want the welder hanging in mid air, or the leads so short you have to work right on top of it.
As for electricity being pulled or pushed, forget about it, It just flows. When you "turn up the amps" on a welder you are actually turning up voltage. You are not losing AMPS in the cables, you are losing volts.

Hope it helps, and feel free to ask or comment.

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mark

01-01-2001 09:08:58




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 Re: Welding and Electricity basics in reply to Neil, 12-28-2000 06:13:54  
well I have been thru electronic's classe's when I was younger..and what you say is for the most part true..but you need to have your welder's lead's correct in polarity..just like a spark plug ...the coil and battery must be so that the spark jump's freely to the electrode ..not resisting the jump..correct polarity make's so the current will jump to the metal..not splatter ..use a pencil in between a spark plug wire and the spark plug to see if you have polarity right ..should jump on the plug side not spark plug wire side..

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Joe Evans

12-28-2000 20:39:21




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 Re: Welding and Electricity basics in reply to Neil, 12-28-2000 06:13:54  
If there is a voltage drop due to resistance, it follows that there will be an amperage drop. I=E/R.



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T_Bone

12-28-2000 22:13:24




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 Re: Re: Welding and Electricity basics in reply to Joe Evans, 12-28-2000 20:39:21  
10-4



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Duallie

12-28-2000 23:45:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Welding and Electricity basics in reply to T_Bone, 12-28-2000 22:13:24  

In any complete circuit, the amperage anywhere in the circuit is equal. In other words, amps are constant despite voltage drops due to resistance.



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Old Sparky

12-29-2000 08:36:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Welding and Electricity basics in reply to Duallie, 12-28-2000 23:45:59  
Duallie is correct. Amperage is the measure of electrical volume. If we make an analogy to hydraulics, it would be like gallons per minute. If there are no "leaks", the flow is the same everywhere in a closed system. Voltage measures electrical "pressure" (electromotive force). As with hydraulics, the pressure (voltage) varies depending on where the measurement is taken. As with hydraulics, the voltage requires a resistance to create a "pressure". Without resistance, the flow is at the maximum the system can deliver. In Electrical, we call that a short circuit. In hydraulics, we call that an open center not in use. Remember, voltage is the pressure, amperage is the volume.

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Old Sparky

12-29-2000 15:55:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welding and Electricity basics in reply to Old Sparky, 12-29-2000 08:36:29  
The analogy I offered is not perfect, but the best for this forum, I believe. One thing I left out- the more volume of hydraulic fluid, the larger the pipe. The more amperage (volume) of electricity, the larger the wire. The more pressure of hydraulics, the thicker the pipe or hose to hold the pressure. The higher the voltage (pressure) of electricity, the thicker the insulation. Do we need to discuss coulombs, joules, henrys, farads, etc.? Look them up in a good dictionary. Started as electrician's helper in 1947.

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T_Bone

12-29-2000 00:16:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Welding and Electricity basics in reply to Duallie, 12-28-2000 23:45:59  
Hi Duallie, Please give us an example of your therory by solving a problem with showing your math.

T_Bone



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Skinner

12-29-2000 04:05:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welding and Electricity basics in reply to T_Bone, 12-29-2000 00:16:35  
I think maybe he is referring to industrial type sensor loops, like the good old standard 4-20ma loops. The reason they use this method is mainly due to noise, the 4-20ma loop is pratically immune to noise and does have very little/none drop when running long lengths. The current is converted back to voltage 1-5 volts dc at the panel via a 250 ohm resistor.

However, Ohms law does state that Amps,Voltage, and resistance are tied directly together meaning a change in any one of the items will affect the other two. This is the entire reason when looking at wire size it has the current and length and if either of those two items increase, so does the diameter of the wire.

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Duallie

12-30-2000 02:30:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welding and Electricity basics in reply to Skinner, 12-29-2000 04:05:44  
Assume a DC circuit incorporating a 12.0 volt battery is connected to two loads (resistances) in series. Assume one load has 4 ohms resistance and the other load is 6 ohms, for a total load of ten ohms. To find the total current in the circuit, we add all of the loads together and divide into the volts applied: I=V/R= 12v/10ohms = 1.2amp. To find the voltage drop across the first resistor: V=IR =1.2a x 4ohms = 4.8 volts. The drop across the second resistor =1.2a x 6ohms = 7.2 volts. To check, add the voltage drops together to make sure all of the volts are dropped: 4.8+7.2=12 volts. A real-life example could use your tractor battery connected directly to a headlight: an ammeter in the positive lead will read the same current as an ammeter in the negative lead, but a voltmeter referenced to negative won't read the same voltage on the positive wire as on the negative wire. Current determines how large a wire you need, not voltage. Look at your power pole: incoming wires to your pole-mounted transformer are smaller than the exiting wires despite the fact that they have 19 times as much voltage (assuming 4160 in/220 out).

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