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Amperage drop by adding length to leads ?

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bill

12-27-2000 19:06:41




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Lincoln 225 AC/dc machine. I got good response from a question about either adding an extension cord (40') or extending leads by (40'). Seems to be about equal disagreement as to what is best to do. Norton Smith welding supply says no problem with adding up to 100' of lines going from the original #5awg connected to a #2awg (40') extension. However my electrician says that it would in fact over work the small welder by having to push the load that distance and back. So now my question is this, Has anyone extended lines on these small Lincoln 225 welders and what problems in amp dropage if any have happened. Trying for some more answers. (Man, if you can't trust your welding supplier, who can you trust ???

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Steve U.S. Alloys

12-28-2000 11:53:17




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 Re: amperage drop by adding length to leads ? in reply to bill, 12-27-2000 19:06:41  
Just wanted to pass this along since this subject has come up. I just got back in from a trip to one of our state highway depots. Yesterday they had requested that I come out and show them a gouging rod to use on a little Miller Thunderbolt AC unit to cut plow parts off. That little machine had 75' of #2 cable attached. Normally, 150 amps AC runs the gouging electrode very well. Wide open at 225 amps there was marginally enough heat generated to knock an old weld off of the 1/4" lap joint we used it on. It took 180 amps to run a 1/8" #820. Since they also had an engine drive unit the decision was made to use it to run the gouging electrode.

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T_Bone

12-28-2000 17:19:56




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 Re: Re: amperage drop by adding length to leads ? in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 12-28-2000 11:53:17  
Hi Steve, That sure shows what should work don't always work. To many vairables to consider. Kinda like your mining post as I've ran 500ft of lead and had no problems with a Pipeliner but had a problem with 300ft on a diferent pipeliner. One can only guess what the next job will have.

T_Bone



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Joe

12-28-2000 09:47:19




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 Re: amperage drop by adding length to leads ? in reply to bill, 12-27-2000 19:06:41  
Bill, I have a Linde 295 amp buzz box and ended up extending both the ac power cord and the welding leads. I decided to rewire the machine rather than use an extension cord. It now has a 30 foot power cord (8 awg)with no extra connectors to worry about. I also replaced the leads with about 50 feet of 1 awg. The only drawback is that I had to build a cart to lug all this stuff around. The cart has hooks front and back to neatly hold the cables when not in use or when the full length is not required. I made the cart double decker and have a small mig welder on the upper deck.

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Joe Evans

12-27-2000 22:23:58




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 Re: amperage drop by adding length to leads ? in reply to bill, 12-27-2000 19:06:41  
We send our machines out to the jobsite with a minimum of 50' of gound and 100' of electrode. We do, however, use 1/0 AWG lead. Honestly, I wouldn't worry a hoot about it. Jack the machine up a bit if the arc is too cold. The lead connectors will give you more fits than lead size anyway.



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Greg

12-27-2000 20:46:27




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 Re: amperage drop by adding length to leads ? in reply to bill, 12-27-2000 19:06:41  
In the shipyards, we would run up around 1/4 mile of lead whether we were welding with stick or mig using an LN22 or suitcase welder. You may find that you have to increase the amps proportionally to lead length.

I wouldn't think the lengths your're looking at will hurt the welder [DC], and with # 4 wire in the shop you could aways replace it with a 70 amp machine. ;]



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Steve

12-27-2000 19:39:25




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 Re: amperage drop by adding length to leads ? in reply to bill, 12-27-2000 19:06:41  
I use to have a older lincoln that came with 30 ft. of electrode and 20 ft. of ground cable and it worked great. I don't know how old the welder was, I bought it used. A friend of mine does have a old forney with the same lenghts on his to, but then these our older machines. I do know a man who bought a Lincoln ac/dc welder and he put I think about 50ft. of electrode cable and about 40 ft. of ground and said it worked O.K.. I myself now have a Lincoln 225 with 12ft.electrode and 10 ft grd. I too would like to extend the leads but haven't gotten around to doing it. And also I have to say that I can't wait to turn on my computer to read this message broad daily. I've learned more on here because of the great advice to everyone than I ever could have imagined. Thanks to everyone who takes time to give us there hard earned knowledge for free. Steve

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bill

12-27-2000 20:25:43




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 Re: Re: amperage drop by adding length to leads ? in reply to Steve , 12-27-2000 19:39:25  
How right you are Steve !!! This is a great site I just hate to ask elementary questions, expecially since I have a degree in vocational education.


Bill



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Steve U. S. Alloys

12-28-2000 05:09:01




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 Re: Re: Re: amperage drop by adding length to leads ? in reply to bill, 12-27-2000 20:25:43  
Everyone has what may seem to them (personally)as an elementary question when we are outside of our field of expertise. I have always subscribed to the theory that intelligent and secure individuals always ask questions and that any quest for knowledge cannot be viewed as elementary. Ask away.

In extending the leads on your 225 amp machine, the #2 cable it comes with is probably not practical to extend beyond 50 feet on the electrode holder. The ground does not need to be as long ( 30'for example) because you usually can clamp somewhere on the piece w/o having to extend as far as the electrode holder. Fred makes a very good point though if you have a need to go to the top of a silo or similar industrial location.

I was once 340' down and one mile out underground at Peabody's #10 coal mine. We were attempting to use the U.S. Alloys #820 (designed for high moisture/contaminated applications)in a demonstration welding bit lugs to the drum on a continous miner. A 250' 2/0 lead absorbed all of the output from a 500 amp Miller machine. An extension cord was utilized to overcome the problem. My point is that you can put too much lead on a machine when you only have 225 amps to begin with. You will need somewhere between 90 and 120 amps just to run 1/8" carbon steel electrodes. If the ground clamp is not connected properly, the situation is compounded.

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T_Bone

12-28-2000 09:26:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: amperage drop by adding length to leads ? in reply to Steve U. S. Alloys, 12-28-2000 05:09:01  
Hi bill, Now you can see why it's best to read the books and not give advice on problems that can hurt someone via the internet. There's tooo many considerations to give for one job. What works one time will not work another. How someone describes what they have to work with is nots always what's in the actual working inviroment. You would be supprised at how people describe problems over the phone to what the problem is really doing at the job. We always got a good laugh to what was described to what the problem was.

I have ran 50ft of 150amp welding lead and ran 1/8" rod without problems on a welding machine smaller than yours. I have also used 100ft of 250amp lead without problems, but thats at my place and not yours. Your mileage may very as they say!

One thing I do know and that is the NEC code book does not allow #10 wire on a 50amp circut, period.

T_Bone

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bill

12-28-2000 21:23:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: amperage drop by adding length to leads ? in reply to T_Bone, 12-28-2000 09:26:19  
Thanks to everyone for your posts. I have made a choice after consulting with a lincoln technician. Will use #6 wire to wire the female plug to the breaker (50 amp. breaker). Will extend my leads to 40' using twenco connectors. If problems occur with amperage drop, I can then start shortening the leads. Thanks to all for the help. What a great site. Will later post my results !!!

Bill

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Steve U.S. Alloys

12-29-2000 05:14:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: amperage drop by adding length to leads ? in reply to bill, 12-28-2000 21:23:33  
Consider lengthening the lead on the electrode holder to 50' and the ground to 30'. Also consider using connectors that allow you to use the standard length the machine came with. Then, on the occasion the extra length is required, just add it in as a temporary extension. I have mine set up that way and it is convenient and easier on the equipment.



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