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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

OT: Deck building question

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Midwest Redneck

02-27-2005 04:25:38




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Two weeks ago I asked a few questions on deck building. Here is another question. IF I were to use Sonitubes for the concrete and have the tubes stick 6" above the ground can I use 4X6 posts anchored right into the concrete if I put a heavy tar on the posts first? The reason I ask this is I know that it is not standard practice to put treated timber into concrete but my deck will only be 3' off the ground and drilling into 4X6 posts is a #itch. Plus by pushing the posts into concrete the post will not have lateral movement and I wont need to use cross braces. I will still use a post cap to put the sleeper beams into. Have any of you fellas seen where a treated post rotted away while cemented in concrete? even if it is 6" above the ground. Thanks in advance.

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Robert in W. Mi.

03-01-2005 10:54:05




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 Re: OT: Deck building question in reply to Midwest Redneck, 02-27-2005 04:25:38  
First, all CCA post going on or in the ground NEEDS to be at least .60 rated, and have a tag on the end saying so.

I would probably put the post right in the ground too, i would NOT sink them in concrete, as they do shrink, let moisture in and rot faster.

IF, you feel you need concrete, then there's a post anchor just for that job!! It has the J-bolt on it, and holds the post up off the concrete a little.

Robert

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Charles (in GA)

02-27-2005 15:28:45




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 Re: OT: Deck building question in reply to Midwest Redneck, 02-27-2005 04:25:38  
Why not use concrete piers 3 ft high and forget the posts? Put the outer band boards right on the piers and the only posts will be for railings?

Charles



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Steve Elings (IA)

02-27-2005 17:42:10




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 Re: OT: Deck building question in reply to Charles (in GA), 02-27-2005 15:28:45  
You need to have a beam under the deck to carry the span.



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jdemaris

02-27-2005 19:52:50




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 Re: OT: Deck building question in reply to Steve Elings (IA), 02-27-2005 17:42:10  
Think I asked once before, but why not forget the concrete and put CCA ground-contact rated posts directly in the ground. They will last longer then we will. They won't crack like concrete pillars sometimes do. Quite a few houses going up using CCA treat wood-frame foundations instead of concrete.



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Rod in Smiths Falls, ON,

02-27-2005 13:05:17




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 Re: OT: Deck building question in reply to Midwest Redneck, 02-27-2005 04:25:38  
The prefab concrete pylons for 4X4's have 1 1/2" slots moulded into them in a cross pattern to allow the moisture to escape yet keep the post in position. Any reason why you couldn't pour your posts with a sacrificial mould made out of styrofoam which would do the same thing? Then when it's dry you just cut the sonotube back, break out the styrofoam, put your post in and keep everybody happy.



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Steve Elings (IA)

02-27-2005 08:51:50




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 Re: OT: Deck building question in reply to Midwest Redneck, 02-27-2005 04:25:38  
If you are only three feet off of the ground you should not need a cross brace and I would pour the concrete and as you say six inches above ground and use a post anchor. You are using a beam right, the problem with putting it in the ground if you will look at the warranty on CCA it does not cover being placed in the ground and there are different grades of CCA.

Good Luck



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jdemaris

02-27-2005 19:49:11




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 Re: OT: Deck building question in reply to Steve Elings (IA), 02-27-2005 08:51:50  
What sort of CCA treated lumber are you using that is not warrantied for below ground? I've been using it for at least 30 years and the stuff I buy has always been rated for such. I forget the numbers that are used, but they reflect the pressure used to inject the CCA into the wood. Low pressure not rated for below ground, high pressure is. Something like 40 and 60, or 040 and 060, I forget. It's getting now, I can't get anything BUT CCA for below grade and the CCA, at least here in New York, is only available in 6" X 6" and larger. It is exempt because it is considered commercial instead of residential. The new treatment ACQ? has only been showing up in my local yards with the low-pressure preservative, and also a need for upgraded hardware because it eats up metal. If I was building a deck, I wounldn't want anything smaller then 6" x 6" posts anyway, and I'd sink them right in the ground. Been quite a few houses been built in my area lately with pressure-treated CCA woodframe foundations instead of concrete.

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Gus

02-27-2005 04:48:05




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 Re: OT: Deck building question in reply to Midwest Redneck, 02-27-2005 04:25:38  
I have seen concrete poured around posts. The posts shrank as they dried, water got down in around them, then froze and the concrete broke away.Can't you pour a pad in the bottom of the hole, 42" deep below frost, then put your posts on the pad, then backfill? That's how we do it. In fact, the lumber yards sell 4 or 6" thick,round cookies you drop in the hole, then you don't have to mess with mixing crete. May not be code for all structures, but for decks, it's done all the time.

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