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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

New concrete over old

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George in Bilox

02-21-2005 07:07:07




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Hey y'all
I would like to add some concrete over the top of some existing concrete in the barn. The existing floor is low and is awash in water in a good rain. I need to float it from about 0 to 3 -4 inches in the back. If I go high in the front my exhaust stack will hit the garage door. What prep work, bonding agent, etc will be needed and any other do's / do'nts will be a big help. I intend on using fiberglass reinforced concrete.

Thanks in advance,
Geo.

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Gerald J.

02-23-2005 07:13:40




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 Re: New concrete over old.. alternatives in reply to George in Biloxi, 02-21-2005 07:07:07  
Trench the concrete right inside the door and put in a drain. Add another at the low spot. Then it won't stay wet if it runs off the tractor.

There are epoxy floor covers that could be used, but 3" thick would be like using gold bars for chocks.

Gerald J.



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Dick L

02-21-2005 13:00:32




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 Re: New concrete over old in reply to George in Biloxi, 02-21-2005 07:07:07  
We have poured 3 and 4 inches over an existing floor using a heavy fork truck carrying 1000 pounds and up many times a day with no cracking problem. The 0 to 3 is where the problem would be. If your problem were here at the plant I would remove the existing floor where the over pour would be less than 3 inches only.



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Joe in Minnie

02-21-2005 12:12:41




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 Re: New concrete over old in reply to George in Biloxi, 02-21-2005 07:07:07  
Well ole buddy, there are two solutions: Trowel a vinyl mix made from portland cement, sand and bonding agent onto the damaged or bad contret, or pour a fully bonded concrete overlay at least 1 inch think over the entire slab you want to fix....or, Contact "Concrete Solutions," I don't know if they are in business as now, but their address is 6160 Fairmont Ave. Box 600526 San Diego, CA. 92160 Phone (619) 521-3033 hope that helps, these other guys sending you info, I don't think they researched enough. regards, Joe

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36BinMN

02-21-2005 08:03:34




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 Re: New concrete over old in reply to George in Biloxi, 02-21-2005 07:07:07  
Hi again, AS Gerald stated starting over with a totally new floor is the best way. But you ask How to pour new over old correct.



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36BinmN

02-21-2005 08:00:00




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 Re: New concrete over old in reply to George in Biloxi, 02-21-2005 07:07:07  
Hi George, I've got a few questions and hints for ya. 1) Are you in Mississippi or do you get freeze thaw cycles?
2) What kind of shape is the old floor in? Is it cracked or crumbling really bad or heaving 3)If it has a lot of cracks the new floor will crack in the same spots that the old one is.
4)if it is crumbling or flaky the new floor will not bond to it no matter what you do.

Preparation of old floor:
1) power wash it to remove ALL dirt and loose chips of concrete
2) Let the floor dry as long as possible and keep it clean.
3)With Good ventilation, some kind of filtration mask, eye protection and gloves. scrub the floor with Muriatic acid and a stiff bristle PLASTIC brush (Follow the dilution rate on the acid you buy). This will etch the floor and give it a tooth for the new to bond to. (kinda like painting)Let this dry for 24 hrs.
4) Scrub the floor again with water and a brush to remove the white residue that the acid left.

pouring the new floor
1) I use a polymer bonding agent between the old and new concrete. I buy it in a 50# bag and mix with water. You can find this stuff at a contractor store. Ask the guys there and follow the directions on the bag.
2) The stuff I use is done this way, 1 cup poly to 1 cup water, mix and role it on (like painting) let it dry 1-2 hours. Mix up another batch roll it on part of the floor cover it with the new concrete right away, repeat this till the floor is covered. You will need a few guys to get this done, so you don't fall behind with the concrete!!!

Where you taper it down to nothing on the one side, You can expect it to chip and peal back aways. The fiber is a good idea, Six X Six wire mesh will help hold it together also. Good Luck !!

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George in Biloxi

02-21-2005 10:57:54




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 Re: New concrete over old in reply to 36BinmN, 02-21-2005 08:00:00  
South Mississippi, no freeze thaw cycles. The floor is solid, just done wrong. I appreciate the other info. So I do not get a thin, crumbly edge (making a roll around jack or cherry picker h*ll to use, I might just need to break it up and repour.



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1945 A

02-21-2005 12:25:28




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 Re: New concrete over old in reply to George in Biloxi, 02-21-2005 10:57:54  
You can purchase a bonding agent that you can either spray/pour/brush/roll on the existing floor, or mix in with your new concrete, and it should adhere, provided your existing floor is free of oil, dirt, debris. If done properly, you shouldn"t have a problem.
As for the "feathered edge, that may see floor jacks, hoists, etc., why not incorporate a strip of steel plate into the concrete---weld some j-bolts, or anything for that matter for the concrete to adhere to....
Just a thought, and another way of doing things....
My .02 worth....

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Gerald J.

02-21-2005 07:31:29




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 Re: New concrete over old in reply to George in Biloxi, 02-21-2005 07:07:07  
Break up the old to gravel and use that for part of the aggregate in the new concrete. That thin layer will crumble to gravel anyway. Just pour the whole thing new and deep enough to be strong. With steel.

Gerald J.



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oldart

02-21-2005 13:32:32




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 Re: New concrete over old in reply to Gerald J., 02-21-2005 07:31:29  
pour 4 inches all over with wire in it then cut the stack on the truck to go through the door no more problems if not good enough break up old floor good luck! art



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George in Biloxi

02-22-2005 06:45:48




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 Re: New concrete over old in reply to oldart, 02-21-2005 13:32:32  
I would have no problems cutting the stack on a truck, this stack is on one of my tractors. ;>)

Thanks y'all for the advice.



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