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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

More questions on Pellet stoves.

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Midwest redneck

02-02-2005 02:31:44




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I got prices yesterday on Pellets stoves, lowest Harman price is $1750 from a dealer an hour away from me. I am going to keep looking at other dealers and brands. For the guys that have A corn/wood pellet stove here are my questions. 1. What do you pay for wood pellets, in winter and summer? 2. I dont have a basement, I am thinking of putting the stove in my garage and drilling a 6" hole in my crawl space block and piping the heat into the crawl space, I dont want to have the pellet stove in the house, because all my water pipes are in the crawl and I want it to be warm down there to prevent freezing. Do you guys think that it will be keep the main level of the house warm just by piping in the heat to the crawl? My crawl is insulated with 2" foam board. I have a 2300 sq.ft. ranch. 3. Anything that you would have done differently? 4. With Propane going higher each year I am thinking that the pellets are the way to go, I will likely save $1000/year If I install this. How much propane have you saved by putting in a pellet stove. 5. How does the autofeed hopper work, I have never seen one. 6. This was answered before but how much pellets do you use in a day, I am guessing about 30lbs., I live in Michigan and I am thinking about 4000-5000lbs./year, at $$200 ton is this correct?

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Bubba

02-02-2005 14:47:19




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 Re: More questions on Pellet stoves. in reply to Midwest redneck, 02-02-2005 02:31:44  
1) $2.95 for 40lb bag if I buy them 60 bags at a time (a pallet load).

2) Won't work.

3) No.

4) You'll save lots of money but check with your insurance company first. All of them here have dropped coverage for houses heated primarily by wood (yes, even wood pellets).

5) A simple auger.

6) Obviously depends on weather, I go through a half bag to a full bag a day if it's way below zero and windy.

Suggestion: get premium pellets, with as few "fines" as possible.

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Sorry Bubba

02-03-2005 04:10:19




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 Re: More questions on Pellet stoves. in reply to Bubba, 02-02-2005 14:47:19  
Pellets are sold by the ton (Pallet)that would be "50" 40lbs bags not 60.



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midwest redneck

02-03-2005 05:28:02




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 Re: More questions on Pellet stoves. in reply to Sorry Bubba, 02-03-2005 04:10:19  
It looks like the it is about $3 per bag, if you buy in bulk. Where do you get the pellets from? I will have to call around.



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ScottP

02-02-2005 10:53:31




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 Re: More questions on Pellet stoves. in reply to Midwest redneck, 02-02-2005 02:31:44  
Redneck
I bought a Waterford cast iron pellet stove off ebay two years ago. Last year I used three tons of pellets at about $200 a ton. This year looks to be about the same. I have found that not all pellets burn the same. I would suggest buying the diffrent brands and trying them. I dont get the kind of weather here in the bay area as you do in Michigan but I use one forty pound bag a day. Unless we get snow, then we use two bags a day.
Your house is alittle bigger than mine but you are way better insulated than I am. I would replace you wood stove with the pellet stove.
The automatic feed is great, we fill the hopper before we go to bed and refill it when we get up in the morning. The house is nice and toastie.
You wont be sorry switching to a pellet stove. The pellets are easy to handle. We clean out the ash about every three days, get about a good cup of ash.
You can also hook up the pellet stove to your existing thermostat.
Scott

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midwest redneck

02-02-2005 08:32:04




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 dealer doesnt want to sell me a pellet or corn sto in reply to Midwest redneck, 02-02-2005 02:31:44  
I called a local dealer, about 2 miles from my house and they sell the corn/pellet stoves and the guy says, "we dont recommend them because they arent very efficient and they are pain in the *ss because you have to store the material" I said...let me get this straight you sell the stoves but you dont want to sell me one, the guys yeah, we dont recommend them. Well the guy must be smoking dope, I need to talk to the owner of the store.

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dbwillia

02-02-2005 07:36:31




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 Re: More questions on Pellet stoves. in reply to Midwest redneck, 02-02-2005 02:31:44  
We have an Envirotec stove that burns either corn or pellets. We have tried both and like using corn better. It is easier to maintain the stove and corn is cheaper to buy than wood pellets. Wood pellets were selling for $3.19 for a 40 pound bag and we paid $1.72 a bushel for corn. A bushel of corn will definitely burn as long or longer than a bag of pellets. The corn also burns hotter. I would definitely buy a stove that was capable of burning corn. We have owned our stove for six years. Also have a propane furnace that kicks in during really cold weather.

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willie j

02-02-2005 06:08:09




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 Re: More questions on Pellet stoves. in reply to Midwest redneck, 02-02-2005 02:31:44  
Redneck
Answer too long to post here. Send me E-mail & will try to fill in. [email protected]
Willie



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Midwest redneck

02-02-2005 06:56:02




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 Re: More questions on Pellet stoves. in reply to willie j, 02-02-2005 06:08:09  
The email came back to me as undeliverable. Just go ahead and post on the ytmag site.



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T_Bone

02-02-2005 04:10:08




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 Re: More questions on Pellet stoves. in reply to Midwest redneck, 02-02-2005 02:31:44  
Hi MwRn,

Let me see if I can help you get on the right track on how to gather the correct information.

Every structure has a heating demand expressed as Btu/hr. I won't go into detail as this is a huge list to calculate and beyond the scope of this forum, but an simple example includes items like what your home is made from, window area, heat leakage and climate area, wind shear of the exterior wall surface, etc; all determines what your Btu/hr demand will be.

You should be able to determine approx what your Btu/hr demand is from your past LP usage.

First convert all your calculations to BTU's/pound for comparring heating values of any substance. This is the only accurate way to tell the actual cost to heat/cool with a substance.

You already know your Btu/hr demand from your existing LP unit with some simple math. Look on the mfg label on your LP unit for input and ouput Btu. This will a number like 100,000btu, 120,000btu etc;

Unit effiecncy is = output Btu\ input Btu
100000\120000= 83% efficient under "lab" conditions. You can calculate unit efficiency of a installed unit using the same method (very math intensive).

Just because a mfg list a unit (doesn't matter what kind or brand) efficency as 83%, 95%, etc;, do the math from the attached label to confirm this.

If your going to install this unit yourself, the unit mfg may (most likey) not guarantee the effiecency rating to a homeowner (some contractors too) for a good reason. Example: If the unit uses forced air then if the air ducts are not design and installed correct, the unit efficiency can greatly be reduced. I've seen some 95% rated units down in the 70% effeciency range as installed by contractors.

It's not only the cost per unit measure that you need but also the heating value per pound.

Sorry but I've been retired too long for any current HVAC mfg unit info. Your going to have to rely on the guys here to fill you in on the best units made now.

Being a Energy management engineer, I could probably spend 1hr at your home and save you 30% of your current heating bill on your existing system.

With that in mind you might want to reseach how to make your existing system more efficient, ie; air leakage, clean filters, leaking duct work, damaged duct work, dirty burner, slow fan motor, and the big one HEAT/COLD air leakage, etc;

A infered thermometer is about $60. The best $60 you'll ever spend for this project!

T_Bone

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evielboweviel

02-03-2005 16:34:53




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 Re: More questions on Pellet stoves. in reply to Bill Herd II, 02-02-2005 15:14:53  
t_bone as usual listed out good factual info. have never seen the same from you.
Ron



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Midwest redneck

02-03-2005 02:09:14




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 Re: More questions on Pellet stoves. in reply to Bill Herd II, 02-02-2005 15:14:53  
Now, Now, be nice Bill.



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Midwest redneck

02-02-2005 05:45:12




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 Re: More questions on Pellet stoves. in reply to T_Bone, 02-02-2005 04:10:08  
Thanks for the info. I built in 1999 a new ranch, 2300ft sq. I have 8-10 inches thick of the cellulose insulation in the attic and R-13 in the walls and R-10 foam board in the crawl space. I have Vinyl windows, with argon filled double pane. I performed a calculation 2 nights ago on how much btu's per hour I would need. I do know that even if I put more insulation in the attic and put plastic sheet on the windows that it would increase the efficiency by maybe 10% or so. So...in short my propane bill for the season would only drop by 10% (estimating here) I do know that wood pellets are about 40% the cost of propane when comparing wood pellets to Propane. One main reason for looking into this now is because this summer I dont want to have to pay $1.40 or $1.50 for the propane prebuy. I would like to save several hundred dollars per year on the heat bill and Pellets are one way to go. Geothermal is another---but that is expensive for the setup.

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Insurance ..John,PA

02-02-2005 06:35:42




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 Re: More questions on Pellet stoves. in reply to Midwest redneck, 02-02-2005 05:45:12  
In my "neck of the woods", the homeowner's insurance companies are really gett'n fussy about pellet stoves.

I would recommend checking with your insurance agent about the costs that may increase if you install a pellet stove. Maybe, though, you can get away with it without them knowing. (hopefully).



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Midwest redneck

02-02-2005 06:57:32




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 Re: More questions on Pellet stoves. in reply to Insurance ..John,PA, 02-02-2005 06:35:42  
The insurance comp. knows about my firewood stove in my great room, it bumps the premiums up. But I would hate to be denied a fire claim because they werent told about the woodburner.



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buickanddeere

02-02-2005 08:05:00




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 Re: More questions on Pellet stoves. in reply to Midwest redneck, 02-02-2005 06:57:32  
My insurance company was only interested in the fact that I had a wood burning airtight fireplace. Being in a rural area that didn't suprise or scare them with a new concept.Have to wonder is some of these horror stories are from insurance company personal. That have never seen anything excpet oil,gas or electric heat? Then again any excuse to increase premiums will do. Our neighbour took a stoker boiler intended for basement or garage installation. And set it outside the the house in a rather well built and sharp looking garden shed. No insurance hasseles and heat, smoke, dirt, ash & fuel is all outside the house but under cover.

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