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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Turboed air compressor

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birdy

01-26-2005 15:08:23




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Had a idea the other day to attach a squirrel caged fan to the intake on my 5 1/2 x 3' two stage compressor. It is an older compressor with a 5 hp 220 volt motor. I would attach the wiring to the pressure switch to come on when the pressure is low and to cut out when the correct pressure is reached. Will this work? Will it cut the time it usually takes to reach the 175psi? Just a idea. Will it increase the air flow enough to help keep up with the sandblaster?

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birdy

01-27-2005 17:31:27




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 Re: Turboed air compressor in reply to birdy, 01-26-2005 15:08:23  
I know this was a bird brain idea and I except all resposes. But you have to have volume of air to have more pressure. I think I will abanded the idea of a fan to increase the pressure of the compressor. thanks to all that reponded to the idea.



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Ron in Nebr

01-27-2005 10:51:52




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 Re: Turboed air compressor in reply to birdy, 01-26-2005 15:08:23  
Reminds me of something I did way back when....I was about 14 and rigged up(with plenty of duct tape) a squirrel cage defroster fan unit blowing into the snorkel air intake on the air breather of my "hotrod '62 Cadillac".....instant turbocharger, right??? Well, it made about as much improvement as my "water injection" that I made out of something that looked suspiciously like a Caddy window washer unit....:) Not really a "pin you back in the seat" ride by any means...

Back to the air compressor- assuming you COULD somehow force-feed alot more air into it(maybe using a belt-driven screw-type supercharger unit?) one bad thing that would happen would be that it would probably overheat things. When air is compressed it gets hot. Feel the output line of your "naturally aspirated" compressor while it's running. It'd dang near burn your fingers. Compressing it even more by the "supercharging" setup would make it tons hotter(yeah, "tons hotter" isn't a real specific temperature measurement). So, what if you took an air-to-air intercooler off one of those little turbocharged foriegn cars....maybe some nitrous oxide.....nah....just like in an internal combustion engine- there's no replacement for displacement. If you want more air, best bet is to get a bigger pump. But in the meantime, have fun and keep thinkin'!!!

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Steve Crum

01-28-2005 21:03:43




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 Re: Turboed air compressor in reply to Ron in Nebr, 01-27-2005 10:51:52  
I had an old Chevy 283 on a stand that I could hook up to the pto on one of the tractors on the farm. I drove the guts out of 8 spark plugs and brazed 1/4" pipe nipples in the plug bodys and bought 8 check valves and piped the lines off these to an old 60 gallon air compressor tank. On the tank I had a pop valve that was set at 100 psi. The I rigged an air filter where the 2 barrel carb was.
The pop valve was big enough to relieve pressure and maintain pressure under constant pumping. The sandblaster I built out of an old 100 pound propane tank. I could blast clean just about any thing from a truck frame to a set of tractor wheels and weights in an hour flat. That old rig brought $510.00 at Dad's auction!

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genep

01-26-2005 17:32:21




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 Re: Turboed air compressor in reply to birdy, 01-26-2005 15:08:23  
Just direct the air from the fan across the cooling fins on the compressor. That oughta be worth something :>)



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birdy

01-26-2005 23:31:14




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 Re: Turboed air compressor in reply to genep, 01-26-2005 17:32:21  
Gene P. You mean cooler air will compress faster, if so those lines should be water cooled.



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Rod (NH)

01-26-2005 16:30:09




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 Re: Turboed air compressor in reply to birdy, 01-26-2005 15:08:23  
Hi Birdy,

Odd name you got there :o). In theory your idea would work. But the numbers don't add up to anything meaningful. Force-feeding a compressor like that would be similar to moving a compressor from a higher elevation to a lower elevation. The throughput (in terms of scfm) would increase a little because the volumetric efficiency would be increased. As I recall, the moving of a compressor from NY City (sea level) to Denver, CO (10,000 ft?) decreases the scfm capacity about 20% due to the decreased barometric pressure, all other things being the same. You'd be attempting to do something similar in reverse. It won't be enough to make any significant difference in sandblasting. Even if you could succeed in getting a 20% boost, going from probably 17 cfm to 20 cfm would not make the whole thing worthwhile, IMO. You wouldn't get a 20% boost anyway with a typical squirrel cage fan, as their discharge pressures are usually measured in inches of water, not psi. For reference, the difference in barometric pressure between sea level and 10,000 ft is 4.6 psi. That's over 120 inches of water, which is too much for most squirrel cage fans, I believe. Forget it. Not worth the effort. Interesting thought however.

third party image Rod

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birdy

01-26-2005 23:27:38




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 Re: Turboed air compressor in reply to Rod (NH), 01-26-2005 16:30:09  
Rod...I am impressed with your figures...but I have to convince myself that a high speed cage fan will not help more than 20 per cent. To consider is the fan will be small and high speed, seems like any fan would cut the time the compressor needs to reach 175#. Just for the knowledge of it...I have a oil-less air compressor and hook it up to the air intake of the larger compressor and time the compressor as to how long it takes to get 0-175#, I know it takes the big compressor about 4 1/4 minutes from 0-175 with no help, Course I know a squirrel cage fan will not put out as much air as the oil-less, but it will still be an interesting experiment,right

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Rod (NH)

01-27-2005 16:49:25




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 Re: Turboed air compressor in reply to birdy, 01-26-2005 23:27:38  
Birdy,

what I am suggesting is that you would not get anywhere near a 20% boost in capacity with a typical fan. The fan you mention will likely only produce a few inches of water pressure at best. It doesn't really matter what the flow (cfm) rating is. Whatever that flow is, it will rapidly decrease as the discharge pressure increases. When the maximum pressure is developed (a few inches) the flow will decrease to zero. All you will have gained is to decrease the inlet losses to your compressor and help, a little, in feeding the first stage cylinder. That will increase the volumetric efficiency a little bit but I suspect any capacity increase will not be noticeable without some precise, calibrated measurements.

As far as feeding the inlet of your two stage unit with another compressor, you may even wind up in a worse condition with the extra "help". Running compressors in series is not unlike multiple stages in a single compressor. What goes in the inlet to the first stage, comes out the outlet of the last stage, albeit at a higher pressure. The capacity of a multistage machine is determined by the first stage only. That being the case, the quantity of air that goes in the inlet of your "helper" compressor is going to determine the volume of air coming out the outlet to your "helped" compressor. It may not be "helped" at all, at least as far as capacity is concerned. It could be starved instead.

In any event, there is no such thing as a free lunch. It takes power to compress air. Even if by some reason, you could significantly increase the throughput of your two stage unit, you would, in all probablility, overload your existing drive motor, at least at the higher end of the discharge pressure. In fact, with marginally rated motors, just feeding a compressor very cold air can overload the motor due to the denser air at the lower temperature. Other than minor tinkering with increasing the volumetric efficiency (such as porting the inlet passages and removing the inlet filter), about the only way to increase the capacity of an existing unit is to increase the speed. That would also require a larger drive motor. If you really need significantly more capacity, the best way to get it is simply with a bigger compressor that has greater displacement and a higher HP motor. A fact of life, I am afraid.

However, good luck with your experiments. I hope you proove me incorrect.

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Fawteen

01-27-2005 02:24:09




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 Re: Turboed air compressor in reply to birdy, 01-26-2005 23:27:38  
I think you're confusing volume with pressure. The squirrel-cage will put out quite a lot of volume, but very little pressure.

Then again, it's a good way to while away a winter afternoon, so why not?



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Mel in SW Iowa

01-27-2005 20:54:23




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 Re: Turboed air compressor in reply to Fawteen, 01-27-2005 02:24:09  
Birdy,
My limited experience with oil free compressors is limited to one Sears 4hp model I bought used at Sears. It had a small restrictive air filter that I removed and threaded/epoxied a 3/4" pipe nipple into. Then I could screw on a "real" metal compressor air filter canister with a replaceable pleated paper element. This cut the time needed to fill the tank to about 1/3rd if I remember right. On a good day, it will almost keep up with a good 1 1/2 hp conventional compressor, but it does seem to deliver cleaner
air for using a paint spraygun.
Good Luck,
Mel

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