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Gas engine powered winch

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F14

12-16-2000 04:12:43

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A friend has asked me to build an engine powered winch for him. He has a large winch off an old fishing boat. Not sure of capacity, but considerable. An electric motor is not an option, due to the place and nature of it's intended use.

I have an electric start horizontal shaft motor that seems ideal. I plan to reduce shaft speed via a system of jackshaft(s). I need to make design decisions in a couple of areas:

1. Single V-belt, multiple V-belt or chain drive?

2. Mechanical clutch, centrifugal clutch or electric?

I'd welcome any and all suggestions, sketches, pictures or sources for parts.

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JohnN

12-22-2000 18:30:53

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Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to F14, 12-16-2000 04:12:43

I rigged up a set-up like you want to on my implement trailer about a year ago. I used a belt drive on the front of an old manual transmission from a p/u truck. I used a winch from a silo unloader so the whole rig didn't cost anything but the peanut butter to stick it together. The old tranny works great for reversing the winch and if you get in a hurry just shift it up a gear.

Oh by the way ....Merry Christmas

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porky

12-21-2000 19:20:48

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Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to F14, 12-16-2000 04:12:43

I built me a winch out of an old cable plow[Maxi sneaker telephone,cable TV.type] .Used the Hyd.pump and motor and hoses And a 10 horse briggs engine and a jack shaft bought a winch off of a wrecker in bone yard works great All for about $135.00

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Greg

12-18-2000 09:10:49

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Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to F14, 12-16-2000 04:12:43

Here's a source: Surplus Center in Lincoln, NE. Phone number is 1-800-488-3407, ask for their catalog. They are good at answering questions, hydraulic and otherwise.

To justify going to the hydraulic, could the system be used as a source for other accessories?

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robert hudson

12-17-2000 18:09:53

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Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to F14, 12-16-2000 04:12:43

this is probably not what you had in mind but. Some of the old pulpwood guys around here made winches or capstads (spelling?) out of rear axles. they put a takeup reel instead of one wheel, chain drive input where the drive shaft was. modified the remaining brake to be activated by a hand lever. The winch would pull in when the brake was activated. ugly but worked. better ones had shortened axles to make it more compact.

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Wardner

12-16-2000 20:01:41

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Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to F14, 12-16-2000 04:12:43

If you have access to a portable air compressor, I would use an air winch or as they are sometimes called a "tugger". They are found in factories, marine applications, and on the back end of track drills. They are complete units with motor, drum, clutch, brake, and some have ratchets. Capacities range from 2000 lbs to over 20,000 lbs. You will also see them next to factories that have a rail siding. They are used to pull rail cars in and out of the building. Mount it securely to the marine railway and multi-part the line till you get the speed and lift you want. There are plenty of them in Maine but if you ever get down to Massachusetts, I have a couple I would sell. Check "Uncle Henry's Trader" or the "Want Advertiser" for other sources.

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MarkB

12-16-2000 07:43:43

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Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to F14, 12-16-2000 04:12:43

Have you considered going with a hydraulic drive; that is, an engine driven hydraulic pump driving a hydraulic motor? This eliminates several messy problems:

Clutch: The valve is your clutch.

Brake: The motor will effectively act as a brake when the valve is closed.

Reverse: Use a two-way valve, so that you can reverse the winch.

Reduction Drive: If you pick the right pump/motor combination, you may be able to eliminate your reduction drive.

You would still need some sort of mechanical clutch if you want to be able to freewheel the winch, but it could be pretty primitive.

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F14...Just eyeballed...

12-16-2000 08:15:37

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Re: Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to MarkB, 12-16-2000 07:43:43

The Northern Hydraulics catalog. Pump, motor and control valve would run about $500, at least.

Out of my price range, I'm afraid, altho it would certainly be elegant.

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big fred

12-18-2000 08:38:51

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Re: Re: Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to F14...Just eyeballed..., 12-16-2000 08:15:37

Paul, that seems kinda high. I was planning on using a hydraulic setup on my truck winch and I had it figgered at about $300 based on Northern prices. That was a pump and motor at about $85 ea, a motor control valve at $55 and a safety valve at $25, plus hoses and fittings. Probably could go with more expensive stuff and run the winch faster, but I ain't in that much of a hurry. If I can scrounge parts, it could be much cheaper.

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F14

12-16-2000 07:55:39

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Re: Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to MarkB, 12-16-2000 07:43:43

That occurred to me after I posted. I'd need to talk to somebody or read some reference materials to figure out how to size things. What GPM/Pressure on the pump, what rating on the motor, how big a reservoir, that sort of thing.

Also, cost is going to be a factor, but it's certainly worth looking into. If you have specific suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

I have an 11 HP B&S twin, and I'd guess the winch is good for at least 20,000 pounds. It'll be used primarily for launching and recovering a tri-hull catamaran sailboat up a fairly steep marine railway. I doubt we'd ever use the full capacity of the winch, but I'd probably want 10k pounds straightline pull available.

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MarkB

12-18-2000 20:06:29

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Re: Re: Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to F14, 12-16-2000 07:55:39

I agree, hydraulic drive is a little bit overkill for a marine railway, since you won't be using it that often. Here's another idea:

Use a single V-belt for your primary reduction, that is, the one running directly off the engine. For the other reductions, use sprockets & chain; you don't want them to fail.

Rig some sort of tensioner for the V-belt, using a lever so that you can tighten and loosen the belt on the fly. Now you have a clutch for free. Need a brake? Just kill the engine with the belt tight. For reverse, take the belt loose from one pulley and twist it half a turn, then put it back on.

Incidentally, if you can find a worm gear reduction unit, they are great for this sort of application, since they are self-braking.

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Greg S

12-18-2000 11:42:52

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Re: Re: Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to F14, 12-16-2000 07:55:39

F14,
Some quick calc's for hydraulic drives:
Hyd motors are speced in cu.in. per revolution and in.lbs.of torque at different pressures.

Rule of thumb-1 hp of drive motor will produce roughly 1 gpm @1500 psi hydrualic.

force to pull boat up ramp- F(lbs of pull)= GR(grade in percent)x weight of boat plus another 50lbs per 1000 lbs of boat weight.

Tank size should be should be about 3 times the pump gpm rating. Too small of a tank lets the oil heat up too fast and decreases the efficiency of the pump.

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Fred OH

12-18-2000 05:29:22

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Re: Re: Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to F14, 12-16-2000 07:55:39

I kinda liked the hyd. motor setup myself and how would you tell how much torque is required? If you had a coupling (on the winch)that had a nut welded to it, you could put a torque wrench on it and hook it to the load and see how many foot lbs. are required to pull the load and use hyd. motor with this much torque plus a margin of extra. Sprockets and chain from hyd. motor to winch could help change torque and rpm by varying this ratio. (speed up or slow down) (higher torque and lower speed or lower torque and higher speed. Most winches that I have seen have a dog clutch built in (for free wheeling) and run from a pto on a truck at a fast idle (about 600 rpm on pto shaft) seems about right as I recall. Don't know about the pump being two stage like a log splitter or not, that would be nice but wouldn't go along with the torque requirements of the hydraulic motor. Anyhow, you'd have to figure out the ratio of the winch and backtrack thru your ratios to figure the amount of takeup of the winch. Winch speed and drum diameter to calculate amount of feet per minute of takeup, bearing in mind that the gas engine could be speeded up or slowed down to vary it a good bit. Look here, I've fiddled around for an hour on this and just about got it engineered for you! Merry Christmas! L8R----Fred OH

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BFO

12-18-2000 07:59:19

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to Fred OH, 12-18-2000 05:29:22

You could calculate the input torque required using the drum diameter, and winch capacity, and work back from there. A single stage pump would be all that's required. Would be a neat project!

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Fred OH

12-22-2000 06:35:02

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to BFO, 12-18-2000 07:59:19

You're right Bill, You'd want to add a little to the drum diameter for the lays of cable though, that would change it's diameter some. I was also thinking that he could design one with a PTO and then sell the guy a tractor but he'd have to figure out a way to reverse it. Maybe an old automatic transmission in front of the winch. It has a reverse in it and a built in reservoir.
Keep some of this weather up there if you will, my propane went to $1.49 a gallon. L8R----Fred OH

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BFO

12-23-2000 13:24:09

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to Fred OH, 12-22-2000 06:35:02

Hey Fred, I just had a great idea..... .....hey wait a minute, we gettin paid? Ho Ho Ho, hahahaha!
Merry Christmas!!!

Believe or not we're probably warmer up here between the two lakes

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Fred OH

12-29-2000 12:07:48

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gas engine powered winch in reply to BFO, 12-23-2000 13:24:09

Bill, we ain't gettin paid but we sure are makin America efficient with this stuff. Who's really gettin the most benefit from all this knowledge is the people in the lesser developed countries. This is like getting a free PHD to them. (See how many say thanks). We have only had about two inches of snow so far in southern Ohio but it's been below freezing for about a dozen days now. Dave Letterman said that Al Gore was runnin for president of the Bahamas...I saw a lawyer here the other day that had his hands in his own pockets...Go figure. L8R----Fred OH

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