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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

AC power converters

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John (MO)

01-25-2005 08:59:57




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How well do those power converters work that attach to your 12 volt system to give you 115/120 volts of AC power? Will they produce enough power to run hand tools like a drill or a saw? How hard are they on a trucks electrical system? Will they ruin an alternator or a battery?




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doug stockman

01-27-2005 03:24:50




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 Re: AC power converters in reply to John (MO), 01-25-2005 08:59:57  
Others have answered your need to do some simple math to figure out what you can run. Harbor Freight has a 2 KW Coleman inverter for around $200. That may run your circular saw. It does fine running my 4x6 metal cutting bandsaw. This inverter is a modified square wave inverter (some say a modified sine wave inverter). These types of inverters are not ideal for tools. The tool may run a bit hotter and may have a slightly shortened life span. If you want to run tools often using an inverter, pay the extra money for a true sine wave inverter. Be prepared to pay $500+ dollars for one that can run common tools.

BTW, I run my house on a 5.5 KW sine wave inverter. No problems x 5 years.

Doug Stockman
Penfield, NY

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dr.sportster

01-28-2005 13:02:00




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 Re: AC power converters in reply to doug stockman, 01-27-2005 03:24:50  
Off a 12 volt battery?



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doug stockman

01-29-2005 01:51:50




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 Re: AC power converters in reply to dr.sportster, 01-28-2005 13:02:00  
The 2 KW modified square wave inverter is off a 12 volt battery.

The 5.5 kW pure sine wave inverter for the house is off a 48 volt battery. I use 2, 48 volt 850 amp hr (each) lead acid forklift batteries wired in parallel. Each battery weighs about 3,500 lbs. The batteries are charged by a 3 kW wind turbine and about 900 watts of PV.

DS



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dr.sportster

01-29-2005 16:26:20




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 Re: AC power converters in reply to doug stockman, 01-29-2005 01:51:50  
Thats pretty wild.



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dr.sportster

01-26-2005 14:45:07




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 Re: AC power converters in reply to John (MO), 01-25-2005 08:59:57  
John,If you use it [a big one] for your own use it may be ok.But on a fleet of trucks where alot of diferent guys were using them for various loads, drills and stuff,every one of them blew out broke or whatever you want to call it in about one year of use.I dont remember the brand name but they were rated for pretty good wattage.They might be more for camping trips than everyday job use.Generators had to be purchased anyway.

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Kendall

01-26-2005 13:24:46




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 Re: AC power converters in reply to John (MO), 01-25-2005 08:59:57  
If you get at least a 400watt inverter, it will run a drill. If you need to run a skill saw, you'd be better off buying a generator. An inverter big enough to run a saw will cost lots of money and drain the daylights out of a battery.



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greenbeanman in Kansas

01-25-2005 11:01:40




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 Re: AC power converters in reply to John (MO), 01-25-2005 08:59:57  
A few years ago I purchased a "Vector" brand of inverter with a 700 watt continous rating, 1400 watt surge rating.

While the instruction manual states that it will not operature some induction motors such as drills, I have yet to find anything that it won't run.

I have used both 3/8", 1/2" drills, circular saw, jig saw, a 1,000 watt travel iron, my computer with hardware including printer, and ????

I live in town with my farm in the country. I have a small building there which I sometimes stay in. Hence the need to iron clothing while in the country before going to work, and using my computer there instead of at home.

I charged a battery while driving to work, then tapped the power while in the country. Also used the tractor battery after farming for a few hours, then repeating the cycle.

I personally think that they are a great temporary electrical provider. I hope to eventually put up a 12 volt wind generator at my farm and take more advantages of the invertor. Such as compact fluorscent yard lights and inside lights to give the impression the place is lived in.

One thing to look for is how much draw/consumption they have while idling, i.e. without load draw.

As to affecting alternators--both my tractor and my truck I used the inverter on have them without any ill effects.

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Red Dave

01-25-2005 09:43:24




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 Re: AC power converters in reply to John (MO), 01-25-2005 08:59:57  
I think what you are refering to is an inverter. Changes 12 Volts DC to 120 AC. They are available in various sizes so the answer to whether one will run a drill or saw is: How many watts does the tool require and how many watts will the inverter supply? Off the top of my head, I'd say that an inverter to run an average 3/8 drill is probably not hard to find, but an inverter with enough capacity to run a skill saw would have to be a whole lot bigger.
As to whether it will ruin your alternator or battery, you have to remember that "watts out will equal watts in PLUS losses". There will always be some losses consumed by the inverter itself. If you want to get 200 watts out at 120 volts (which is only about 1.67 amps out), you must supply 12 volts at 16.67 amps(plus internal losses in the inverter).
To use a skill saw as an example, a saw that pulls 10 amps at 120 volts uses 1,200 watts running power. To supply an inverter for that output load, you must supply 100 amps at 12 Volts to the input (plus losses). And that ignores the extra amps required to start the saw motor.
A car or light truck electrical system probably will supply the 100 amps for a short time, but if it is a long-term thing, most alternators won't keep up. Unless you have a very heavy duty electrical system.

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John (MO)

01-25-2005 10:08:00




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 Re: AC power converters in reply to Red Dave, 01-25-2005 09:43:24  
So if my alternator isn't able to put out as many amps as is needed, I can see that being hard on the electrical tool a person is using, but is it also going to harm the alternator or battery?



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Red Dave

01-25-2005 11:02:03




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 Re: AC power converters in reply to John (MO), 01-25-2005 10:08:00  
It may, depending on how much you overload the electrical system, and for how long.

For instance, if your alternator can put out 60 amps and you take 100 amps from the battery for 5 minutes then stop, the battery will recover in a few minutes with the engine running and probably won't hurt anything. But if you did that for 2 hours, the battery will be run down since the alternator can't keep up with the constant drain. Plus the battery and alternator aren't designed for that high constant demand and it will shorten their life.
So it still comes down to how much and for how long? There is no hard and fast answer without more data. If you can get an idea how many amps your power tools use at 120 volts (from a nameplate or operators manual) we can calculate the inverter demand at 12 volts and maybe come up with a ballpark idea of the answer you are looking for.

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