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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Micrometer

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CNKS

01-06-2005 19:21:04




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I need to measure the camshaft lobes and the crank journals, etc on my IH 460U. I have the service manual that tells me how and where to measure. Do I need a micrometer or a vernier caliper, or do they both do the same thing? Are the digital models reliable? They come in all price ranges -- can I get a decent one for occasional use for $60 or so, or is that too cheap? I assume the accuracy should be in the order +/- .001? I'm attempting to be a pretend mechanic -- thanks!

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CNKS

01-07-2005 11:44:57




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to CNKS, 01-06-2005 19:21:04  
Thanks -- Sure got a variety of answers. Don't seem to have anyone around here with micrometers, or high dollar calipers. Local auto parts guy talked me into a digital caliper (yeah, unnecessary, but it's the same quality and brand as the dial one he had), he's had the business for years, don't know how much actual repair stuff he still does. Going to try it by measuring several times and see if it will replicate itself. If not it goes back. Thanks for your help.

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LUCASS

01-07-2005 10:02:51




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to CNKS, 01-06-2005 19:21:04  

IF YOUR GOING TO MEASURE CRANKSHAFTS FOR WEAR.A MICROMETER IS BEST..LUCAS THE CRANK GRINDER



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Rod (NH)

01-07-2005 09:42:46




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to CNKS, 01-06-2005 19:21:04  
CN,

I'll definitely second the dial caliper as the best all around choice for a part-time "home" mechanic. I have mics to 3" but I rarely ever use them anymore. I can't even remember the last time I used either the 2" or 3" ones. The dial caliper is almost always my choice. Forget the vernier type, they are a PIA to read. A good dial (0-100 not 0-200) is easily read and sufficiently accurate (+or- 0.001) for anything you are likely to do. Consistent measurement to tenths is a pipe dream for the casual user - and not necessary. My personal opinion is to forget about the digital displays altogether. They are just another thing to go wrong. Totally unnecessary. Get a decent one with a good sized dial and a covered rack. I have a Mitutoyo but there are other good brands. You probably won't find a good one for $60 but a hundred or a little more will get you a tool that will serve you well for many years. You'll also get inside and depth measurement capability at no extra cost. Pretty hard to beat.

third party image Rod

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Opa A

01-07-2005 09:21:39




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to CNKS, 01-06-2005 19:21:04  
Buy yourself a good quality dial caliper and a dial indicator with magnetic base. That is all I carry on my service truck and I have never been stuck in 15 years. With a little practice you will be able to make accurate inside, outside and depth measurements. To do this with micrometers in a 0 - 6" range look at spending alot of money to get all the different types of micrometers. I spent over $1000.00 on inside, outside & depth mikes. A few sets of quality feeler guages of different shapes are also indispensible.

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vmil3

01-07-2005 08:50:13




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to CNKS, 01-06-2005 19:21:04  
When measuring crank journals there are two methods.

First using a micrometer of known calibration (dosen't matter who made it!). With the crank at room temp as well as the mic, measure the journal around the perfiery at atlease 3 locations, do this at each end of the journal, this tells you if the journal is out of round or tapered. Check sizes in engine service manual.
Next way of measuring (this is measuring journal clearance) is using plastigage strip, install new bearings in block then install crank in block, oil up bearings and crank, place a pieces of plastigage on the crank journals from front to back of journal, lube and torque down bearing caps. Next remove bearing caps and using the plastigage cover(sheath) hold the cover(sheath) next to the squished plastigage on the crank journals. This will tell you the clearance between the bearings and the journals, this is also done on the con rod journals. Check with engine manual for correct spec's. Also check end play in the crank to block using feeler gages or dial indicator. This is done by pushing the crank to front of block, then measure with feeler gages at the thrust bearing (the one that has sides), or mount a dial indicator setting dial needle on the crank, then push crak to rear of block.

For the camshaft you can measure the bearing journals with a mic or dial vernier, they usually don't wear, what does wear are the cam lobes, what is normally checked is the lift of each lobe on the cam. This is normally done with the cam in a lathe or in the block (timing chain or gear removed so the cam can be rotated in place). A dial indicator with a mag base will cost $20.00 to $30.00. For the pretend mechanic's or home hobbiest the made in China measuring tool will be fine. One note: I don't recomend the tin frame mic's, only the cast frame ones.
Doug

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Bill WI

01-07-2005 07:41:22




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to CNKS, 01-06-2005 19:21:04  
I had a 1-6 Chinese set in the shop for the last 5 yrs I worked. The boss was a young Starret type. He sent my standards in to be calibrated and was amazed at the accuracy. We were polishing and grinding carbide draw punches and had to work in tenths. What I haven't seen mentioned is calibrate your mic that's over 1" with the standards provided with the them. Also keep the temperature of the tool and what you are measuring in about the same range. Don't expect a 3" journal thats at 10 degrees and a mic that's at 70 degrees to measure accurate. I agree with Butch that measuring tenths is really getting down to the feel and probably isn't going to happen. We always checked our final with the shops digitals that were kept in the same air conditioned room as the tooling. Don't be scared, you won't need tenths on a motor. Bill

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riverbend

01-07-2005 06:11:32




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to CNKS, 01-06-2005 19:21:04  
I had good luck measuring the cam lobes and crank journals on my H with a dial caliper.



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Butch(OH)

01-07-2005 05:34:02




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to CNKS, 01-06-2005 19:21:04  
CN, any precision measuring tool requires some expertise to operate it correctly and get accurate repeatable results. A caliper is a bit more difficult to master but an evening spent measuring an object of known size should put your skills where they need to be for what you want to do. I"d go with a quality 6" dial caliper like a Starret or Mititoyo because it will be a whole lot more useful around the shop than a 2-3" mic. The digital calipers are less accurate than the dials. Although the resolution may be .0005 on the digital the accuracy is often +- .002 or more. The advantage to digitals is no brain work required. When properly handled and read a quality dial caliper will be within .001. If your crank is that close to the no go measurements it ought to be ground anyway IMO. Half tenths (.0005) are about as good as it gets by hand, I am talking about repeatable performance here. Measuring tenths (.0001) by hand is for the real experts (few) and dreamers (many).

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Bob - MI

01-07-2005 05:21:05




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to CNKS, 01-06-2005 19:21:04  
For that kind of work the micrometer is the most accurate choice. Others have given you good advice on brand and features. I wonder however if you you wouldn"t be better served by taking the cam to a machine shop and getting it measured. If you have managed to get by without a mic. so far, you probably won"t use it all that often.

I saved all my measuring tools from when I was working as a machinist over 25 years ago and I have one heck of a time keeping them from corroding in my basement. Probably should move them upstairs and put them in the wife"s jewelry box huh?

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Fred Martin

01-11-2005 12:00:59




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to Bob - MI, 01-07-2005 05:21:05  
Hi Bob from Fred, A little comment about the machinist tools rusting in the box...go to the drug store and get some camphor blocks and put it each drawer. Does the trick. Fred OH



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Davis In SC

01-06-2005 20:12:59




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to CNKS, 01-06-2005 19:21:04  
If buying Mics..... Insist on carbide faces & a tenth vernier barrel..... Mitutoyo is my favorite....



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Irv

01-06-2005 20:11:50




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to CNKS, 01-06-2005 19:21:04  
Calipers and micrometers are both handy to have, but there is a difference in accuracy. A micrometer ( Mic ) is inherently more accurate do to its design. But a caliper is more flexible. Micrometers are made in 1 inch gradients - A zero to 1 inch, 1 to 2, and so on. Depending on how big your cams and cranks are, you might need more than one. A set of 0 - 3 or 0 to 6 is common. You might try ebay or something like discount tool. Irv

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kraigwy

01-06-2005 19:47:42




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to CNKS, 01-06-2005 19:21:04  
I think the micrometer will give a more accurate reading, not because the caliper is not accurate but for the messuring of cam lobs,its easier to do (accuratly) with a micrometer. Digital ones are accurate enough if you get a dicent one, mine cost over $2oo, I think if I only had $60 to spend I would skip the digital and go with a normal one. Just mho

K



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rose

01-06-2005 20:48:33




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to kraigwy, 01-06-2005 19:47:42  
Use the mic. 2to3, cheap ok, just check with a standard.I would sell you a set cheap if you pay for shiping Call (361)-572-4751 Mike



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dr.sportster

01-07-2005 07:06:11




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to rose, 01-06-2005 20:48:33  
Rose I disagree,sorry,but cheap is not ok when it comes to micrometers.If its not Brown and Sharpe,Starret,or Mitoyo then its probably a waste of money.CNKS get a vernier mike to measure to the ten thousands or.0001 grauations on the barrel.[these guys are calling them tenths in machinist slang]As stated you will need to practice on known size objects to get a feel for the mike.There is a book for this if I can find it I will post the title later.

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Big Jim

01-10-2005 00:24:02




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 Re: Micrometer in reply to dr.sportster, 01-07-2005 07:06:11  
IMHO, Measuring cam lobes with an insturment capable of thnths is a waste. First, it does take a great deal of practice to use an insturment of that quality accurately and second, engine tolerances just are not that tight. A thousanth on a cam lobe is pretty unimportant. Even the less-expensive devices are decent for repeatability in the short term and , on a cam, you really want to know if there is variation from lobe to lobe. I'll readily admit that my chineese digital caliper is the most often used precision measuring insturment even though I have other Brown & Sharpe, Starrett, and Central tools in the box.

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