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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question

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Butch(OH)

12-23-2004 18:55:55




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Power been off for a spell here with the big snow and ice storm. Been running my 110V needs with my portable 5000 watt generator but I want to run the well. The generators use a special 4 prong plug which I have. No instructions with the generator or plug but I have determaned which two prongs I run the legs to by testing the voltage with a meter. I assume that one of the other two is the nutrual(spelling?) Is the other extra prong for a ground rod? I metered both of them and they both show being grounded to the generator frame. One of the grounded prongs is silver and the other brass colored, I assume for coding what they do. Thanks for any help.

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guess who

12-26-2004 16:01:21




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to Butch(OH), 12-23-2004 18:55:55  
I like idea of extra recpticles one 220 for pump and others spread out throught house for 110 use that are hooked up to the generator exclusively for when the electricity goes out. You could use a different color recpticle for your generator powered recpticles than those powered by the electric co. You can also use different colored wire or wrap colored tape around your generator powered recipticles. I have a six circut square d box hooked up to a heavy cord that runs outside and is stored in a el. box under the porch. When needed the cord comes out of the box and is hooked up to the generator. Then the power goes thru the cord in to the house then thru the new breaker box which is not connected to the electrick co in any way, then the power goes to the brown colored recepticals I hooked up to the generator. The other recpticles are colored white. When the power goes out I have topull the plug from the white recpt. and put it in the brown one.

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JMS/MN

12-24-2004 22:39:23




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to Butch(OH), 12-23-2004 18:55:55  
Some of the options mentioned here will work, but there is only one way to do it right, and protect the utility employees from electrocution. Have a double throw switch installed on the main pole, and a proper generator hookup installed.



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Leland

12-24-2004 19:28:29




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to Butch(OH), 12-23-2004 18:55:55  
An old linesman told me to turn off main coming into home and plug generator into welder plug this according to him will run the whole house and keep juice from back feeding out .



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Mark - IN.

12-24-2004 22:23:29




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to Leland, 12-24-2004 19:28:29  
That is exactly correct. Cut the main before you go on line to your house with your generator, and go off line with the generator before throw the main back to commercial AC, otherwise can smoke your generator shorting out on whatever popped the breaker on the transformer (tree limb, squirrel, etc), or trying to power everyone down your leg of the grid that is off line and not on the shorted side of the grid.

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IanC

12-24-2004 12:00:29




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to Butch(OH), 12-23-2004 18:55:55  
Maybe BuickandDeere can clarify, but the way I"ve been told is that if you take out the meter can nothing can backfeed into the utilitys lines, and that you can take the meter OUT you just aren"t allowed to put it back IN. That they, or a liscenced electrician has to.



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buickanddeere

12-24-2004 14:04:22




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to IanC, 12-24-2004 12:00:29  
Such removal of a meter base should be done only if someone is going to die if it isn't done. Opens up acusations of energy theft which is treated worse here than stabbing someone and having them live. Live high voltage terminals within "easy access" is the other concern. If someone somehow gets a metering circuit open in a service where current and potential transformers are in use. The high voltage arc from a loaded C.T. circuit will ruin equipment and injure/kill the tinkerer.

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Chris in MD

12-24-2004 04:24:44




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to Butch(OH), 12-23-2004 18:55:55  
Those NEMA twistlock plugs will work for what you have, no problem, but they have 4 prongs so that you can use one of those transfer switches with your genset. Two of them are hot wires, 220V for your well pump, one is a neutral, one neutral and one hot make 120V and the other is the ground. You are correct, both the neutral and the ground are similar, but the silver terminal should be the neutral. Using a welder or dryer plug and turning off the main breaker is easy and tempting, but don't do it. Like buickanddeere said, wire a plug and outlet in between the breaker and your well pump, and that will work for a lot cheaper than a transfer switch for your application.
Good luck and be safe.
Happy holidays to all,
-Chris

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buickanddeere

12-23-2004 21:17:02




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to Butch(OH), 12-23-2004 18:55:55  
Silver lug screw is neutral but you well pump won't use that. The ground screw is usually green. The two line terminals will be brass. Some utilities allow a male/female plug in the well pump, sump pump and furnace wiring right at the main panel box. The load is unplugged from the panel and into the generator. Not the greatest system but Ok in a pinch at a remote well or such. For connecting to the main service to have the capability to run anything as generator capacity allows. DO NOT BACKFEED into a WELDER, STOVE or CLOTHES DRYER PLUG. Your generator seems to have the ground and neutral bonded which is good for standalone service. However if connections are made into some transfer switch and services, that bond may have to be opened.

Link

Those little "Emergency Power Panels" are well loved by some but are alot of money just to run a few little loads. The same money could be spent to run most of the loads instead with the cheaper switch listed above and a bigger generator.

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DaveCA

12-24-2004 07:16:34




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to buickanddeere, 12-23-2004 21:17:02  
Too bad this can"t be put up somewhere in a FAQ for electrical. Some very good discussion boys.
Can it be done the wrong way? Sure. Will it work OK done wrong? Maybe
Back feeding yer electrical system is akin to drinking a fifth of your favorite whisky and taking your tractor for a ride through the big city, will you get away with it? Maybe
Thanks for sticking with it b and d



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farmall300u

12-23-2004 22:26:12




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to buickanddeere, 12-23-2004 21:17:02  
If I trip the main breakers, why can't I use the 220V 20amp welding outlet to hook up my generator to power the whole house?



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Gerald J.

12-24-2004 04:00:23




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to farmall300u, 12-23-2004 22:26:12  
Electricallly just pulling the main works. But the power crews don't like that because someone can close the main with the generator on and make those lines that were dead back live and linemen working bare handed on dead lines don't like them coming on when they didn't do it. 7 KV hurts worse than 120 volts, if they survive they can have missing limbs from the deep burns. That's why they want a transfer switch.

Then your generator doesn't have the power to feed several neighbors through the power line either.

It works but its unsafe to depend on opening the main breaker unless its mechanically interlocked with the breaker from the generator. That works and is accepted, but the interlock to make certain only one can ever be closed is important for lineman and generator survival.

Gerald J.

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buickanddeere

12-24-2004 04:35:14




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to Gerald J., 12-24-2004 04:00:23  
It's the law. And we all hear people telling us how clever they are to be able to rig power through a back feed. I've seen breakers fail to open one or both poles as well when operated. You should hang around a generator service shop after power outages. Smoked generators, blown breakers and twisted off shafts/couplings are the norm. Not too many people admit to making those mistakes. Back feeding through a welding receptacle runs current through the ground wires. Only the insulated neutral wire is intended to carry unbalanced neutral current from unbalanced 120/240 loads. Ground wires are to carry fault current only. Now the entire ground system get raised several volts above true earth ground. This causes "tingle voltage" problems for livestock on your's and even on the neighbours farm. $en$itive electronic control circuit$ and communication equipment can develop fault$ a$ well.

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kidbob

12-23-2004 20:45:49




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to Butch(OH), 12-23-2004 18:55:55  
If one of the two is flat and the other L or U shaped The odd shape is the frame ground the other is neutral.



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jeffcat

12-23-2004 20:42:39




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to Butch(OH), 12-23-2004 18:55:55  
Fast answer. On my generac 5200 watt the twist plug has the two outers as 220. The brass one with the "ground ear" on it is ground. Most of these units don't use the neutral or silver tab. See what other guys say but that is how my system is wired and I can run the whole house a system at a time. Well-heater-and fridge with care. I have plenty of Kero lamps and candles. Very romantic-Ha ha.Jeffcat

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surefire

12-24-2004 07:54:20




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 Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 plug wiring question in reply to jeffcat, 12-23-2004 20:42:39  
Eluctroctions of linemen may occur when the main breaker is off if the neutral returns current to any power co. lines.Although the neutral is supposed to be earth potential if somehow you backfeed through transformers of the power co.they may step a small amount of current to a high and fatal one.Eventually they will figure out what happened and no one will be happy.



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buickanddeere

12-24-2004 13:57:12




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 Important point by surfire Re: 4 prong 20 amp 220 in reply to surefire, 12-24-2004 07:54:20  
You are correct. That single phase transfer switch isolates and transfers the neutral as well as the two lines. This one shows up anywhere but most often in older,failing, damaged or Mr. Tinker wiring jobs. A floating or high resistance neutral can be a nasty thing.



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