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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

2- Cycle Oil

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Crem

11-12-2004 20:14:27




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I see that there is a 2-cycle oil available that is supposed to work for all 2-cycle engine ratios or am I reading that wrong. Is this really possible or is using it asking for trouble. I have a leaf blower that is 16-1 and an EZGO golf cart that is 120-1. That is quite a range of ratio's.




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buickanddeere

11-15-2004 08:04:57




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 Re: 2- Cycle Oil in reply to Crem, 11-12-2004 20:14:27  
The point has been made here about overly lean carb settings. For emissions the carbs are set lean but this increases combustion temps and reduced the amount of oil available. It's safer to mix even the correct low ash oil a little richer than that the side of the bottle says.



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Can't use my name

11-13-2004 13:49:55




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 Re: 2- Cycle Oil in reply to Crem, 11-12-2004 20:14:27  
I use Amsoil synthetic that recommends mixing at 100:1 for normal use and 80:1 for severe use. Have run it in my fourwheeler for 6 months and chain saw too with out any problems. Definatley a lot more power! A real noticable difference and easier starting too. Sounds real lean but it hasn't hurt anything yet. They have a website, Amsoil.com I do beleive. Check it out.



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Charles (in GA)

11-13-2004 18:34:15




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 Re: 2- Cycle Oil in reply to Can't use my name, 11-13-2004 13:49:55  
I sell Amsoil, the reason I do is because the two stroke, and the 90 wt gear lube made a believer out of me.

Normal gas oil mix goes dead fairly quick. Leave it in a chain saw or trimmer all winter and you got problems in the spring. With Amsoil, its a couple of pulls and its running. Absolutely amazing stuff. I mix 50:1 , been doing this for 10 or more years now with a chain saw, a blower and a brush cutter, no problems and they all work perfectly.

I don't know if other synthetic two stroke oils are this good or not, and I'm not going to bother to find out.

Charles

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JT

11-13-2004 14:17:29




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 Re: 2- Cycle Oil in reply to Can't use my name, 11-13-2004 13:49:55  
the biggest problems I can see with using a 100:1 mix. if you are using gasahol, that lean of oil will cause long term damage, 6 months will tell you nothing. Why you will ask, alchohal is a solvent, and any solvent will wash oil off of steel, like cylinder walls and bearings. Unless they are giving you a written quarantee that the 100:1 mix will not destroy your engine, I would have no part of it, but it is your equipment. I see a lot of destroyed cylinders becasue of lean oil mix and when your saw/trimmer/4 wheeler happens to lean out in the carb, then you get a lot less oil, then the damage starts getting worse.

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Leland

11-14-2004 01:35:31




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 Re: 2- Cycle Oil in reply to JT, 11-13-2004 14:17:29  
JT can you still get rabbit oil it was a syn oil made by union carbide.



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JT

11-15-2004 07:00:07




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 Re: 2- Cycle Oil in reply to Leland, 11-14-2004 01:35:31  
Leland,
That is one I have never heard of.



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Leland

11-15-2004 14:31:58




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 Re: 2- Cycle Oil in reply to JT, 11-15-2004 07:00:07  
WE used it in snow mobiles in the mid 80s.



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MarkB_MI

11-13-2004 05:31:51




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 Re: 2- Cycle Oil in reply to Crem, 11-12-2004 20:14:27  
2-cycle oil is generally formulated for one of two specs: "TC-W" is for water-cooled engines, particularly outboard motors. "TC" is for air-cooled engines. Most power equipment manufacturers specifically recommend against using TC-W rated oil.

The link below has more than you probably want to know on this subject.

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JT

11-15-2004 07:16:39




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 Re: 2- Cycle Oil in reply to MarkB_MI, 11-13-2004 05:31:51  
Most premium 2 cycle air cooled engine manufacturers recommned oil the is JASO-FC rated oil. I do not even know what all this means, but this is what I know. When the EPA Phase II went into effect, the manufacturers went from a TC-I rated oil to the JASO rated oil. This is something about the Japanese oil rating. Opti-2 one mix oil is E-GD+ oil. it is mixed 1.8oz per gallon. This is another thing an Echo rep told me one time. We had a brand new Echo hedge trimmer lock up, the rep said it was because customer was using oil designed to run a 3600RPM, not 10,000-15,000 that Echo oil is good for. Both had the same rating, but the one the guy was using was Toro oil mixed at the mixture the bottle said to use. I ain't trying to sell oil, just do not want to see good equipment destroyed because of lack of knowledge on the product being used. What I am trying to relay, it is not worth saving 15-30 cents on oil for the 3-500 saw or trimmer. The cheap trimmers, does not really matter much, they only run at 7500-8000 RPM, so there is not as much heat build up there. So you get less damage. Not trying to argue with anone, just passing along what I have learned in doing this for the last 30 years.

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Rod in Smiths Falls, ON,

11-14-2004 16:25:37




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 Engine failures from the wrong oil? in reply to MarkB_MI, 11-13-2004 05:31:51  
Mark's link is very interesting, indeed. Last summer I dumped some Yamalube injector oil for an outboard into the oil tanks of my Yamaha G1 golf cart and my EZ-Go 2 cycle as well. The Yamaha gave up the ghost last week, and I was blaming old age and abuse. The mechanic I talked to on the phone suggested a failure in the oiling system. It might have been the oil.

That Yamalube went in on top of some other 2 cycle oil, I don't remember what, but with a TCIII classification. But the G1 thins its mixture out at some times to as little as 300 to 1. The EZ-Go is an oil-hog by comparison at 1:128 or so. It's still going strong. Maybe I should have paid attention to the warnings in the manual.

Years ago my dad burned the powerhead out of my McCullogh Pro-850 chain saw by using gas mixed for his Homelite, 40:1, I believe. If I remember right this McCullogh is the only one in the line to require 28:1 gas:oil mix. The power head cost $450., a costly lesson.

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Greg C.

11-12-2004 21:57:42




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 Re: 2- Cycle Oil in reply to Crem, 11-12-2004 20:14:27  
32:1 with a good quality 2 cycle oil is what I tell all of my customers. I personally use Mobil 1 MX2T synthetic at 32:1 you can not go wrong with this ratio.



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Gene Davis (GA)

11-12-2004 21:17:31




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 Re: 2- Cycle Oil in reply to Crem, 11-12-2004 20:14:27  
The ratio of the oil does not determine the quality of it. It is simply how many ounces of oil you put into each gallon of gasoline. The main thing you need in a 2 cycle oil is a good high quality low ash content oil that does not leave a lot of carbon residue in the cylinder and in the muffler. The oil in the gas needs to keep the crankcase lower end bearings and the cylinder walls lubricated, then usually burns away when the ignition of the gas occurs. A good oil mixed at the correct ratio usually leaves very little carbon and/or smoke. If you look on the oil container it will give you a number of ounces to mix with one gallon of gasoline. The best way I have found is to take an empty container add a small amount,usually about 1/4 of the gasoline, add the oil, then close the lid and shake it well and I usually add some fuel stabilizer at this time. (I prefer the Seafoam brand myself) to help keep the fuel, fresh and to help clean carburetor and especially to prolong the shelf life of modern day gasolines. Slowly loosen the lid as it will build up some pressure that you need to let escape. Then you can add the rest of the gasoline to make up the quanity you were mixing to start with. Then shake again before you fill the tank. You also need to remember to shake the container to mix the oil/gas each time you refill the tank. I have several different 2 cycle engines my self and also an Ez-Go that calls for the 128-1 ratio, but I have been running 4 oz of oil per gallon since I had to spend nearly $650.00 overhauling the engine last time. Just want to be sure it is good and oily inside. It has logged lots of hours with grandkids running it and no problems, only changed one spark plug since overhaul time. No particular problem with smoke either. Gene Davis

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JT

11-13-2004 06:15:26




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 Re: 2- Cycle Oil in reply to Gene Davis (GA), 11-12-2004 21:17:31  
There are a lot of oils on the market that are very good. We sell a synthetic oil call Opti-oil. this is a good synthetic oil with very few problems with it. It is mixed at about 50:1, but it is a one mix oil, designed for everything. Do not use it myself, but I sell what people want, they want something simple. Now my beliefs, I run 4 oz. of oil to a gallon of gas in everything I run. snow blowers, chain saws, string trimmers, etc. I have never had a problem with fowling plugs or anything and it does not smoke excessivley. I do use Redmax oil, but mixed at 32:1 mix. The biggest reason for carbon buildup is running a 2 cycle at less than top speed, doing this does not build enough engine heat to keep the mixture burning complete. this is my opinion and what I personally do.

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