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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Never Saddle A Dead Horse

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Tinker

11-07-2004 08:44:00




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I am replacing the hook on my winch, I remember the phrase, but I tend to forget which half of the cable clamp is the saddle. I assume the dead
horse will be the end of the cable.




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Tinker

11-11-2004 19:27:43




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 Re: Never Saddle A Dead Horse in reply to Tinker, 11-07-2004 08:44:00  
Thanks to all!! Ya'll have provided lots of valuable information about this subject, I searched this site before asking the question, but got no results, now it will be here for others as well! Many Thanks, Tinker



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Leland

11-09-2004 15:43:14




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 Re: Never Saddle A Dead Horse in reply to Tinker, 11-07-2004 08:44:00  
Just don't do what a bunch of drunk cowboys did around here.They got arrested for draging there dead horse behind there truck in town.



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Fred OH

11-08-2004 07:17:41




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 Re: Never Saddle A Dead Horse in reply to Tinker, 11-07-2004 08:44:00  
Well, I learned some new terminology here so why not throw in some more. The navy terms for this would be "The bite goes on the bitter end." The part of the u bolt that bites in goes on the short or bitter end. Don"t ask me how it got the name of bitter end,cause I don"t know...but anyhow...there you go. Fred OH



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thurlow

11-08-2004 15:11:33




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 Re: Never Saddle A Dead Horse in reply to Fred OH, 11-08-2004 07:17:41  
Strictly a landlubber myself, but the dictionary says; """(Bitter end}, that part of a cable which is abaft the bitts, and so within board, when the ship rides at anchor.""""

Can't tell where this is in relation to the drawbar, center link, or three-point hitch.....



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Fred OH

11-11-2004 11:52:16




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 Re: Never Saddle A Dead Horse in reply to thurlow, 11-08-2004 15:11:33  
Now if we just knew what abaft and bitts were we"d have her by the tail. I used to watch the Boatswain"s Mates in the navy whip an eye in the end of cable (which if I could do that...I could make a top link that wouldn"t be a chain) (thats bad to use according to the safety preachers on the board)...seems like they used a special looking vice to do it in and a marlinspike...anybody know anything about these tools? Fred OH

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T_Bone

11-07-2004 12:26:43




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 Re: Never Saddle A Dead Horse in reply to Tinker, 11-07-2004 08:44:00  
Hi tinker,

You will also need two clamps per tail upto 1/2" diameter then 3 clamps on 1/2" then add one clamp per 1/8" diameter increase in wire rope size.

T_Bone



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john in la

11-07-2004 10:08:08




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 Re: Never Saddle A Dead Horse in reply to Tinker, 11-07-2004 08:44:00  
Have not heard that term in years but yes the saddle is the flat metal part that the nuts go next to; and the dead end is the short end.
The u bolts always go to the dead end or short end.
Are you using the cable guides that prevents the cable from kinking where the wire turns in the hook??

I remember this because of what a operator did to me while I was a oiler on a crane and training to operate. I spent hours hooking up cables and they were all wrong. The operator did not say a word. When I got finished he then told me to take them all off and put them on the right way. Boy was I mad at the time but I never forgot that lesson. Had he said something at the start it would have gone in one ear and out the other.

They now use wedges on cranes and you use a short piece of wire to clamp to the short side of the wire coming out the wedge. This is because OSHA will not let you clamp to a live wire anymore and it allows a straight pull.

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Farmered

11-10-2004 04:20:18




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 Re: Never Saddle A Dead Horse in reply to john in la, 11-07-2004 10:08:08  
The cable guides you refer to are called "thimbles" Ed



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Pile Buck

11-07-2004 09:25:34




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 Re: Never Saddle A Dead Horse in reply to Tinker, 11-07-2004 08:44:00  
Hi Tinker, upred is correct. If you really want to go one better, do not use the cable clamp. You can open up your wire rope. Take 3 of the strands in one hand and the other 3 plus the core in the other hand. Cross the right hand strands over the left hand strands and tuck them inside one another, pull them tight to determine the size eye you would like. Continue to do this until the wire rope is wrapped all the way up. This is called a Molly Hogan / farmer�s eye, now if you can afford the long tail. Make sure you have a tail that is around 10 to 12 inches long. Wrap the dead end (tail) and the live end together with electrical tape. Do not use the cable clamps. The above-mentioned method will hold more than cable clamps. There is a reason why OSHA will not allow you to clamp the dead end of a wire rope to the live end on a crane. Every time the live end of wire rope is clamped, it is weakened to a degree!

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Big Jim

11-08-2004 01:35:04




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 Re: Never Saddle A Dead Horse in reply to Pile Buck, 11-07-2004 09:25:34  
Another good thing about the eye splice is that it can be done in the field without any tools. If you happen to be in the middle of nowhere and break you winch cable, you can put it back together with 2 eyes looped through each other. I know I can usually do an eye splice faster than I could go to the toolbox for a couple of wrenches.



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Pile Buck

11-08-2004 03:57:36




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 Re: Never Saddle A Dead Horse in reply to Big Jim, 11-08-2004 01:35:04  
Hi Big Jim, I probably should have specified that I have never done this on anything bigger than �� wire rope. The way I discovered that this would work was we had run out of cable clamps and were in a real bind. An apprentice in the crew suggested that we try it; I never dreamed it would work. We were in a situation after using 150 to 200-feet of 3/8� wire rope for a messenger line. We would deliberately pull hard enough to break the wire rope, we had installed what we thought was a fuse able link, but the wire rope would always break at the cable clamp. That meant we lost the cable clamps and the labor to roll a new eyes each time. After doing this procedure time and time again we ran out of clamps, thus we learned the electrical tape trick. We never broke the wire rope again, the fuse able link broke and we retrieved all of the wire rope with eyes intact! Have you ever done logger�s splices? Now there is a lost art!

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Scott-IA

11-07-2004 09:19:56




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 Re: Never Saddle A Dead Horse in reply to Tinker, 11-07-2004 08:44:00  
Here's another way to look at it. The round u-bolt will allow the cable to slip through it. The square edges of the clamp block will not let the cable slip. If you put the block on the short lead, any sliping will let the loop tighten down the cable, making a tighter loop if it happens.

Used to drive tow trucks....newbie put em on backwords, and about got a surprise one day winching something light out of the ditch. Had he been maxing out his pull limit, it could have been deadly for him.

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upred

11-07-2004 08:50:47




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 Re: Never Saddle A Dead Horse in reply to Tinker, 11-07-2004 08:44:00  
When placing cable clamps on the wire, the U-bolt side of the clamp MUST be placed on the short, turn back side while the saddle goes on the long side (live end) - Handyman in Your pocket- page 553



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