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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

ceramic rods for welding in elongated holes

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Lavoy

10-29-2004 16:43:14




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A friend of mine saw an add for these rods of a a ceramic type material for filling in an elongated bolt hole. For example, if you have a 1/2" hole that has been elongated or wobbled out, you take a 1/2" rod and insert it in the hole where the hole originally was. Then you take a welder, and weld next to the rod in the area that the hole is wobbled out. When done, pull out the rod, and you are left with the correct diameter hole. Whatever they are, they have to take a terrible amount of heat, as the weld puddle will be right up against it.
Sounds like a slick deal, but now he can"t find the ad again. Has anyone heard of something like this, or know where to get them?
Thanks,
lavoy

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T_Bone

10-31-2004 04:53:41




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 Re: ceramic rods for welding in elongated holes in reply to Lavoy, 10-29-2004 16:43:14  
Hi Lavoy,

The ceramics have always been very expensive to use as there considered expendable. Ceramic is nothing more than fine clay fired at 2000� and above.

What works really well is copper for working with steel, SS and Aluminum. Even in small quanitys, a piece of CU 1-1/4" x 12" should cost around $20 and is reusable for many years.

Bronze and Brass have too much zinc and will create a gas when welded with mild steel electrodes leaving behind alot of porosity with-in the weldment.

Carbon can NOT be used as it would add carbon with-in the weldment causing cracking from imbrittlement.

Aluminum works ok but not as well as CU as AL will leave behind a residue on most metals. SS works as a good chill bar for AL.

For your project at hand CU is clearly the best choice. You would want to back gouge taper 1/2 of total thickness with a grinder away from the orginal hole diameter, then clamp the CU tight conforming to the orginal hole size, then preheat too about 900� (blind hole welding for penetration), then weld as normal runing the root passes first then work to the outside thickness, then quench with oil.

Tig would give the closest hole conformity next to the copper with the least amount discontinuties of any weld process.

Mig would be my second choice with being very careful of cold lapp.

Stick with 6010 or 6011 would be may last choice. A person would have to pay close attention of slag removal.

T_Bone

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Lavoy

11-01-2004 10:09:19




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 Re: ceramic rods for welding in elongated holes in reply to T_Bone, 10-31-2004 04:53:41  
T-bone,
Why oil quench it at all. The piece is not hardened that I am working on, in fact it is cast steel. If I quench it, am I running some risk of tempering? I know that 900 deg. is well below tempering heat, but don"t want to accidently impart enough hardness to cause cracking.
Thanks,
Lavoy



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T_Bone

11-01-2004 16:46:30




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 Re: ceramic rods for welding in elongated holes in reply to Lavoy, 11-01-2004 10:09:19  
Hi Lavoy,

I thought we might want to add back some temper since some it will removed during welding and located in a high stress area.

T_Bone



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LAvoy

11-01-2004 17:39:40




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 Re: ceramic rods for welding in elongated holes in reply to T_Bone, 11-01-2004 16:46:30  
Gotcha, now I understand.
Went to welding supply shop today, and all they had was carbon, so bought one to try it. So far am not impressed. Seemed to get quite a bit of reaction out of the carbon. Weld puddle didn"t want to lay in right, as soon as the arc got close to the carbon, it went bonkers. Going to look for some copper rods for the next time.
Did find out more info on the kit that was advertised, and it sounds like it was just several different sizes of carbon rod at 3 times the price I can buy them locally.
Thanks,
Lavoy

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rhud

10-29-2004 22:22:20




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 Re: ceramic rods for welding in elongated holes in reply to Lavoy, 10-29-2004 16:43:14  
i beleive MSC has them in various shapes.



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Pile Buck

10-29-2004 18:41:08




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 Re: ceramic rods for welding in elongated holes in reply to Lavoy, 10-29-2004 16:43:14  
Hi Lavoy. Your local welding supply will have or will get you some ceramic backing rings. It is used for making open root joint welds. They come in different diameter rods about 2-inches long stuck to a 2-inch wide heat tape. Works great for welding open root joints!



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Alvin NE WI

10-29-2004 17:22:43




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 Re: ceramic rods for welding in elongated holes in reply to Lavoy, 10-29-2004 16:43:14  
you can do the same with a brass rod and also with carbon rods.



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Lavoy

10-29-2004 20:14:29




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 Re: ceramic rods for welding in elongated holes in reply to Alvin NE WI, 10-29-2004 17:22:43  
I was pretty sure you could do it with carbon, but figured brass would melt away enough that you would not maintain diameter.
I will have to stop at a welding supply house on Monday and ask. He said the kit he saw was up to 1" or 1 1"8" rods he thought about 6" long, and it was around $200. Don"t know if that is cheap or expensive.
Lavoy



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Craig Anderson

10-29-2004 22:29:29




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 Re: ceramic rods for welding in elongated holes in reply to Lavoy, 10-29-2004 20:14:29  
Save your money!!! Listen to Alvin. Brass, Bronze, Aluminum and Carbon all work just fine. I got sick of so called "welding" salesmen promising the Moon at $100 a pound....they don"t come around any more. :-) We"ve been doing general welding since 1942 without any of this crap. You will not get a perfect hole no matter WHAT you use anyway because the flux will pool next to whatever "filler" you use and you will still have an oversized hole. In a simple elongated hole you"ll probably do just as well to free hand it anyway. If you want a perfect hole, fill it and drill it.

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jokers

10-30-2004 08:09:11




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 Re: ceramic rods for welding in elongated holes in reply to Craig Anderson, 10-29-2004 22:29:29  
Craig,

I`m not refuting your knowledge and experience, but I would bet that in many cases if a person were to use a filler rod and a Mig or a Tig, they could make the hole good enough. I don`t think that anyone should dismiss what appear to be "band aid fixes" out of hand just because there is a "right way" to do things. Consider the broad range of scenarios and deadlines regarding field repairs.

Russ

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Lavoy

10-30-2004 10:22:13




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 Re: ceramic rods for welding in elongated holes in reply to jokers, 10-30-2004 08:09:11  
I would guess that with stick you might not get as good a job, but I use wire only so that is not problem.
A couple of the holes I want to fix are on a dozer, and were never a precision hole to start with, but they are elongated by over an 1/8" or more so the dozer is sloppy. These holes are 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" diameter in 1" think stuff. For what I want to do, I can"t hardly justify $100 worth of drill bits, and then I don"t have a drill press that will reliably handle that size bit. In addition to that, a couple of the pieces are odd shaped and would a real pain to try and hold in a regular drill press.
I could weld them in a little and die grind out the holes, but that will also be slow on that thick of material.
If this was a 3/4" hole in 1/2" plate, I would not even worry about, just plug weld it shut and re-drill it, but that is not the case here.
Lavoy

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