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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Homemade air compressor

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Shane A

10-05-2004 19:56:17




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Has anyone converted a auto engine to a air compressor? I am planning to build a compressor to be run by tractor PTO. My idea is to disable the camshaft, replace the intake valve spring with a weaker spring made from music wire and put a check valve in the spark plug hole. Any ideas?

Shane




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Burrhead

10-06-2004 18:51:19




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Shane A, 10-05-2004 19:56:17  
It"ll work with the weaker intake springs and a schrader in the plug holes as far as pressure and CFM go but you will need some type cooling system.

The ones I have seen used a water jug instead of a radiator. They capped off the radiator hose outlets and then left the water pump running and piped the old heater hose outlets to be circulating thru a 5 gallon water keg to keep the heads from cracking from heat stress.

I don"t remember what these fellers use for coolant but I do remember that water would not keep the heads cool enough.

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George G

10-06-2004 15:25:25




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Shane A, 10-05-2004 19:56:17  
We had two old Schramm compresser's. They were the big ol' six cylinders like what they used in the tractors, only on these, all six cylinders pumped air. They were run off 60hp electric motors. Course the head's were set up for air, plus they used the cam and lifter's to unload the compresser when it got up to set pressure. The lifter's were like hydraulic lifter's only used air. The lifters would stay collapsed until air pressure got up to pressure switch setting, pressure switch would energize the solonoid valve, the solonoid valve would send air to the lifters, the lifters would open the intake valves and hold them open until psi droped below pressure switch setting. You asked if they run hot. We ran 80 degree water though them. You could not touch the heads. The compressed air was around 250 degrees comming out of the compresser. If I remember, they were rated at around 225 cfm.I still have the manuals, if you would like to see some of details of them, let me know.

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buickanddeere

10-06-2004 07:59:00




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Shane A, 10-05-2004 19:56:17  
CannonBall has the better system. Weak intake valve springs and tossing the cam away. Doesn't fill the cylinders full enough to raise usuable pressure on the compression stroke. A late model high compression engine works better than an old stove bolt six with low enough compression to run on kerosene. Retarding the cam a tooth or two maybe required to get the intake valve closed about the time the piston starts it's way up. The overlap was intended for a 5000rpm engine, not a 1000rpm compressor. Best is a diesel with some injectors replaced with check valves and fited with a govenor. An oil separator is a good idea.

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Nolan

10-06-2004 06:06:15




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Shane A, 10-05-2004 19:56:17  
Use a V8 engine and do just one bank. Then it will run itself. Smith was a company that used to make conversion cylinder heads for this purpose. They worked. I've worked on some.



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Bus Driver

10-06-2004 05:06:39




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Shane A, 10-05-2004 19:56:17  
If this project actually goes forward, use a small engine. The tractor HP may not be enough to handle a large compressor.



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Vern-MI

10-06-2004 05:01:40




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Shane A, 10-05-2004 19:56:17  
Get rid of the cylinder head entirely and that will eliminate the combustion chamber. Replace the head using a 3/4 to 1 inch steel plate bolted to the block using the head bolt threads. On each cylinder install two low pressure check valves, one positioned for intake and one positioned for exhaust. Keep these close to the head or you will add uncompressible volume to the cylinder. Remove the valve train components but leave the camshaft in place to block the oil passages. Build your intake manifold from steel tubing and fashion inlet filters for each intake check valve. It will be loud but will work.

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Paul Winter

10-06-2004 04:16:07




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Shane A, 10-05-2004 19:56:17  
I built one about four years ago just like you are talking. tried a gas engine first would not build enough air pressure at volume went to a 6.2 chevy diesel now can get 100 psi @90 cfm.Paul



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Midwest redneck

10-06-2004 02:35:15




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Shane A, 10-05-2004 19:56:17  
How much CFM do you need? Can you buy an air compressor that will work? Remember that you can get about 3.5CFM per HP on an air compressor.



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Mike from central ny

10-05-2004 23:18:26




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Shane A, 10-05-2004 19:56:17  
ever think about a refrigeration compressor off a trailer? I rebuild carrier compressors for a living..the 05G 6 cyl put out some CFM for their size, just cant run them for long periods of time because they"ll overheat with no refrigerant.



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Leland

10-05-2004 22:12:24




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Shane A, 10-05-2004 19:56:17  
Saw one made out of old 4 cyl engine ran off 2 pumped off 2 ran a 1 in impact real good had me back on road quick.



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Bob

10-05-2004 20:42:47




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Shane A, 10-05-2004 19:56:17  
There have been kits made over the years to convert 1/2 the cylinders in an engine to compress air.

The combustion chamber works against you (in effect, the higher the compression ratio, the better), for more efficiency, and less waste heat, so taller pistons, or a head with a flat bottom (no combustion chamber) would be better.



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Mark - IN.

10-05-2004 20:26:53




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Shane A, 10-05-2004 19:56:17  
Sounds like quite an undertaking. As I understand you, you are going to turn an automobile engine into what it really is to begin with, an airpump (compressor). That's a pretty big compressor motor. Playing into this, I don't understand removing the cam shaft which would move the valve train to intake, then exhaust air to I assume a storage tank. If you don't do it on the head side of the pistons (can't without valve train), then you must be planning to do it on the backside of the pistons (crankshaft gallery), but would have to create a valve mechanism to take the place of its inlet/outlet (PVC valve or breather).

What will putting weaker springs on the intake valves do for you if you have no cam shaft to open them in the first place? And the existing valve springs are what close the valves in time before the piston slaps them through the head - don't think music wire would do it.

Are you serious? Or are you joking.

Admittedly, with help I converted a air conditioner compressor to an onboard air compressor (same brackets mounted to the engine in the same place) and used a home made tube bumper made out of water pipe on an old 4x4 as holding tank. But that was before could buy a small battery operated job from Walmart for $30 to carry under the seat.

You build this thing, then post a picture of it. I want to see it when it's done. Not trying to discourage you, just think need to rethink it a little.

Mark - IN.

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Wardner

10-05-2004 20:59:59




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Mark - IN., 10-05-2004 20:26:53  
Mark, you haven't stopped to consider that the motor is four stroke and compressors are two stroke. This is why the camshaft has to go or be extensively modified.

Schramm, Smith, Worthington and I presume other companies have used modified automotive blocks to build compressors. Efficiencies and longevity can't compare to modern screw type compressors that can achieve 50,000-75,000 hours with minimal maintenance.

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cannonball

10-06-2004 07:05:47




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Wardner, 10-05-2004 20:59:59  
what is going to happen to oil pressure when you remove cam...surely you need oil pressure to keep rods oiled..need cam turned on exhaust 180 deg opposite intake and just put check valve in spark plug hole..you can grind the metal off around top of plug and have a thread to start with...have fun have nice day may god bless



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Mark - IN.

10-06-2004 06:03:25




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Wardner, 10-05-2004 20:59:59  
Hmm? Sounds like quite a contraption. Sounds neat, just not real efficient. Would like to see one in use.



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Mobilemech

01-14-2006 23:10:59




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Mark - IN., 10-06-2004 06:03:25  
Grimmer-Schmidt makes two units based on Ford 302 and 351. Information about their units can be found at Link



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msb

10-05-2004 20:16:25




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Shane A, 10-05-2004 19:56:17  
Been at least a couple in "Farm Show Magazine".Go to www.farmshow.com and look in archives.Think maybe there is a place to buy the valves you need if I remember right. Its been quite a while.



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Mark - IN.

10-05-2004 20:39:41




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to msb, 10-05-2004 20:16:25  
I went there and saw where could buy a CD Rom of where someone converted an old diesel engine into a high volume compressor. Would like to see one of these.



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ShaneA

10-06-2004 10:58:36




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to Mark - IN., 10-05-2004 20:39:41  
The reason I want it PTO driven is that I already have enough engines to service (battery,oil,fuel, prep for storage, etc.), why not use an existing motor for the new job.

Let me say that I won't REMOVE the cam just disable it, needs to stay in place for proper engine oiling. The weak valve springs are so that when the down travel of the piston creates a vaccum the valve will open by itself. This design is probably pretty ineffecient and dual check valves in a 1" plate that replaces the head would be alot better and only slightly more $$$.

My only real concern is how much heat will it make, dont want to complicate it with a radiator and fan. If heat is a issuse I will lean towards a air cooled VW or V4 wisconsin.

Thanks for the input

Shane

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Mobilemech

01-14-2006 23:43:52




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to ShaneA, 10-06-2004 10:58:36  
When determining how much spring pressure is on the intake valve, the area of the head of valve must be considered. Measure the diameter of he valve inside the face, divide by 2, square it, mutiply times 3.1416. This is the area of the valve in square inches. Measure the diameter of the valve stem, divide by 2, square it, mutiply times 3.1416, subtract from the area of the valve. This is the effective area of the valve. Multiply the area by 14.7 (atmospheric pressure at sealevel). Now you have how much force is applied to the the valve ar the piston moves down in the cylinder, pulling air into the cylinder. Say the intake valve is 2.00 inches with a stem of 0.375 inches. 2 divided by 2 is 1 squared is 1 times 3.1416 is 3.1416 square inches. For the stem, 0.375 dived by 2 is 0.1875 squared is 0.03515625 times 3.1416 is 0.110446875. Subtracting from 3.1416 gives an effectvie area of 3.031153125. Multiplying times 14.7 PSI is 44.55799375 pounds per square inch. A spring such as one that is used for checking valve to piston clearence can be used. The exhaust valve is a different matter. A compression ratio of 9.0:1 will pump about 150 PSI. A check valve in place of the spark plug will work fine. Even though the hole is not very big, I think it will flow enough air. One thing about it, the air will get out of the cylinder. Make sure the check valve is rated for the expected pressure.

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Roger P.

10-06-2004 16:42:14




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to ShaneA, 10-06-2004 10:58:36  
Any air not evacuated from the cylinder will be subject to multiple compression cycles. This will lead to a very high heat buildup, which is why a diesel engine would work better than gas. A former boss at a compressor company had an idea to build and sell kit compressors using a VW flat four built from Mexican parts. It always overheated and siezed for this reason. You will have to actively cool this compressor, no way around it. It sounds like an easy job to convert an engine, but it is a lot of work. You must also factor in the controls for the system. On a PTO, a simple pnumatic pressure switch which controlled the hydraulic flow to the PTO through another solenoid valve might work, but you will still have to empty the cylinders of air before the compressor cuts in again. Most simple poppet style check valve have a 1/8" NPT unloader port on the bottom of them which could be hooked up to a copper line and attached to a needle valve on the pressure switch. That is a lot of air to unload through such a small valve though. 8 ~ 16 separate poppet valves are starting to become a pricey proposition too.

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Wardner

10-06-2004 16:02:19




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 Re: Homemade air compressor in reply to ShaneA, 10-06-2004 10:58:36  
All compressors need some way to shed heat whether it be with finned cylinders or water jacket.

Reciprocating comprerssor valves have a tendency to carbon up. Care has to be taken with their design.

You may find that your cam is needed to power the oil pump. If not, the cam can be discarded and the cam bearings rotated to shut off flow.

Crude valves will have no way to unload. The compressor will blow off the tank safety valve when delivered CFM exceeds demand.

You could think about getting a trashed tag-a-long contractor compressor and toss the motor. You will need to find a way to increase the rpm from 540 to around 2000.

Your cheapest way out (if time = money) is to buy a used complete running tag compressor. It will have all the filters, control circuits, safety items in place. It will be more efficient and retain its value should you want to sell it. Sometimes, it is just better to let the experts engineer and build it.

I am someone who has 1600 horsepower worth of air in seven compressors. I started with only an air brake compressor hooked up to a Farmall Cub. I have been where you are at. I advise you not to waste your time and money.

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