Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Tool Talk Discussion Forum

well pressure tank

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
trep

09-28-2004 18:34:14




Report to Moderator


Im having trouble with water pressure.whenever we use water,the pressure seems to surge up and down.the gage on the tank go from 75# to 40 and back to 75 whenever we use water for a shower or to flush tolet.This is the first time Ive had a house with a pressure tank or well.HELP"""




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
T_Bone

09-28-2004 20:59:00




Report to Moderator
 Re: well pressure tank in reply to trep, 09-28-2004 18:34:14  
Hi Trep,

You would need to give us some run times between when the pump starts and shuts off then starts the pump again to how much water is discharged at the faucet.

Depending on your pressure tank size will determine how long the pump stays off between cycles or called draw down capicity.

Typical draw down capicitys are 6gal, 11gal, 22gal but is dependent on pressure tank size and control set pressure.

Most house faucet seals don't like pressures above 55psi or they will leak and will not last very long. A 30/50psi setting is a good setting, pump on at 30spi and shuts off at 50psi. As stated 20/40psi is another popular pressure control setting.

Excessive pump pressure, such as your 75psi, will cause early pump failure. Make sure your gauge is accurate as there known to be off and your system may well be orperating with the correct pressure settings.

T_Bone

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
david - or

09-28-2004 20:19:08




Report to Moderator
 Re: well pressure tank in reply to trep, 09-28-2004 18:34:14  
It sounds like your pressure tank is waterlogged.

A well pressure tank acts with water the same way a capacitor acts with electricity. The air in the tank compresses as water is pumped in. This damps the pressure rise when the pump comes on, and ensures that the pump runs for at least one minute each time it starts.

Let us suppose you have a typical blue stamped steel pressure tank with bladder and approximately 40 gallons nominal capacity. The tank should be precharged with air to 38 PSI. The pressure valve should turn the pump on at 40 PSI and off at 60 PSI (more-or-less). Let us further suppose your pump is good for 10GPM.

Supposed we start with 40 PSI in the tank. The 40 gallon tank contains 5 gallons of water and 35 gallons of air. Someone draws a glass of water, dropping the pressure just below 40 PSI. The pump turns on and starts to move 10 gallons per minute. After 1 minute of operation, the pump has moved 10 gallons of water into the tank, reducing the volume of air from 35 gallons to 25 gallons. According to the ideal gas law, pV = nRT. We reduced the volume by 25/35, so the pressure should rise by 35*40/25 or to 56 PSI. A few more seconds and the pressure rises to 60 and the pump switch cuts the pump off.

That's how it is supposed to work.

If the bladder ruptures, the air in the tank gets dissolved into the water, and the tank eventually fills completely with water. Consider the same starting situation as before. Tank at 40 PSI, poor thirsty soul draws a little bit of water. Pump turns on, pressure instantly zooms way above cut-off pressure due to lack of any air to compress. The pump shuts off again, pressure drops like a rock. The pump starts again, and the cycle repeats. If you operate it this way for too long, the pump will be damaged from too many start cycles. (The windings overheat from the high starting current, and the thrust bearing wears excessively as well).

There is an older style of pressure tank that did not have a bladder. The ratio of water to air is much higher because such a tank cannot be precharged (the air just dissovles into the water if you try). So the tank has to be physically larger to offer the same damping capacity. There is a special arrangement called a "snifter valve" to reintroduce air into the system that would otherwise cause the tank to eventually waterlog.

Both kinds of tanks can be temporarily fixed by draining the tank and pre-charging with compressed air. If it is a bladder tank, some of the water that is on the "wrong" side of the bladder can be forced out again, and at least some air can get in for a pre-charge. But the bladder (or the whole tank) will be have to be replaced as a long-term fix -- leaking bladders don't fix themselves.

The snifter valve tank can be "fixed" just by shutting off the pump and draining it. Maybe once a month would do it. But the tank really should be self-maintaining, which is why you want the snifter valve to be installed and work correctly.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
John *.?-!.* cub owner

09-28-2004 20:03:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: well pressure tank in reply to trep, 09-28-2004 18:34:14  
This is normal operation on a water system supplied by a private well. The pump kicks on and pumps the tank up to 75, at which time the pressure switch shuts the pump off untill it gets down to 45 pounds and then turns it back on again. Most people keep their pressure switches set lower so it runs from 20 to 40. If this is happening several times dueing a shower or while the washer is filling, your pressure tank may need air added to it, or if it is a bladder (captive air) tank, the bladder may be leaking and the tank need replacing.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mark - IN.

09-28-2004 20:49:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: well pressure tank in reply to John *.?-!.* cub owner, 09-28-2004 20:03:39  
John, I'd say that you pretty much nailed it right down. I've used wells and tanks forever, but have never experienced a bladder tank for my use. My non-bladder tanks have always lost air pressure slowly over months, just by the air mixing (slowly) with the water and going out that tap. For that reason, just finally bought a small Campbell Hausfeld compressor for like $100.00 or so, and let set next to the 40 gal holding tank. Sure beat gettin' yelled at for dragging a 100' airhose and chuck from the garage to the basement 2 or maybe 3 times a year to pressurize a slowly water-logging tank (over time).

Used to run between 35 and 60 lbs of pressure, until I finally sweated in all new 1" and 3/4" copper throughout up to the fixtures. Then set the pressure switch at the Flint Walling to 40 lbs min, and pressurized to 70 lbs. Was afraid to go higher on the max pressure, buy only because didn't want pressure to force the water level below the tank outlet and blow air out the fixtures, scare the devil out of everyone, then have to re-pressurize. New plumbing sure helped out.

One thing's for sure, I hate Menards with a passion, but will give credit for one thing - that liquid solder flux that they have in like an 8oz squeaze bottle. Is great stuff - sure sucks/draws solder up into the fittings like no flux I've ever seen. That's great stuff!!!, but can keep Menards after that.

One question I have for you John, what's your experience with well points? The house I just sold went through 3 in about 25 years. Original was 1" at about 15'. I drove a new 1.5" down to 20', got about 20 years. About two years ago, began drawing dirt and stuff, so pulled the rotted point, hand drove a new 2" down to about 25' hoping for a softer water vein. Hand slipped off the 100lb weight and got broke, but the new plumbing made a ton of difference afterwards. What are you seeing out of well points? 20 years seemed kind've short to me. New home is a shallow 4" at 50', but I didn't put it in, and will be darned if I want to go after that every 20 years.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
John *.?-!.* cub owner

09-29-2004 20:01:08




Report to Moderator
 Re: well pressure tank in reply to Mark - IN., 09-28-2004 20:49:20  
Mark, I have no experience with well points, in my area wells average aobut 200 to 250 feet deep. My Father in law used to have driven points on the farm, but due to ground water pollution he has gone to a deep well.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
TimV

09-29-2004 06:15:28




Report to Moderator
 Re: well pressure tank in reply to Mark - IN., 09-28-2004 20:49:20  
Mark: While I can't speak about your soil types, here in Northern NY, I'd be thrilled to get 10 years from a point if it's used for any type of heavy load. Most will fill up with sand well before that. While "shooting" them will often help, they're still not going to last all that long--the sand will re-infiltrate and sooner or later you've got to replace them. In places like hunting camps, I've seen them last quite a bit longer, but these are typically only used seasonally, and not all that heavily then. My current house had a point, but after replacing it twice in less than a year, I went with a dug (15 foot) well and haven't had any problems in the last 5 years.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy